If you haven't heard about it, it only means you are uninformed, feel free to do your own research, it's been reported everywhere, on these boards, other online boards, objective Subaru excperts on various platforms.
Real Oil Pan Leaks and Fake Statistics
AgentK
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I’m glad to see you acknowledge this is an issue at least. Nobody knows the true numbers but I’ve seen enough threads on this forum alone to know that it’s not uncommon. Perhaps this was an issue with early models and isn’t now, but I have seen issues with 2019-2022 Ascent models.
It’s not just an issue at the lower oil pan either. It also impacts the upper oil pan as well as the cam carriers.
I’m not saying other manufacturers aren’t using liquid gasket maker because many of them are. However, the potential for oil leaks with Subaru FA series engines is greater due to how they’re designed and also in part because of their boxer design. There is over double the amount of mating surfaces compared to a traditional inline 4 cylinder. This is fact. Not speculation. Logic dictates that if you have double the mating surfaces then you’ll have double the risk of oil leaks. A faulty PCV valve would no doubt be a huge contributor and since the PCV valve is not considered a maintenance item, it’s easy to be overlooked. Many users on here have reported theirs to be plugged. I cleaned ours at 30k and it was certainly partially plugged. Fully plugged would have been very hard on the gaskets.
What perhaps exacerbates the issue is the fact that the exhaust manifold is so large (again due to the boxer design) that any oil leaking and pulled by gravity will more often than not find its way onto the exhaust manifold where it burns and is thus detected by the driver. This may not be the case with inline 4 cylinder engines where such leaks might go undetected for a much longer period of time.
Our Ascent has 30k miles on it and so far I don’t see any signs of oil seepage or leaks.
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Definitely not uncommon - but not the rampant problem some want to claim it is.
There's a common belief out there that car manufacturers (literally all of them) switching to gasket adhesives vs a physical gasket, is the cause of this. The problem exists relatively equally across brands it seems, based on forum chatter.
In the case of a Subaru, it can be a little more expensive as there's two oil pan gaskets, but, neither are phenomenally expensive. People out of warranty should shop around, as some dealers charge insane prices to do either of them.
Not really. Probably less likely, since it's not a top down design where everything tries to flow into the oil pan. But us having an upper and lower oil pan may make up for that?
Indeed - and especially not just because of I4 vs Boxer, but also because most cars use transverse mounted engines, so, the exhaust doesn't go under it like a "cradle" - unlike Subaru's.
Liquid gasket vs physical gasket
I wanted to circle back to this topic. There's arguments that one is better than the other (pick a side, people on both). But one thing is clear - manufacturers, regardless of which is best, are using liquid gaskets, in part because a computer can do all the sealing work, vs a human installing a physical gasket.
THAT aside, I have NEVER owned a Subie that outright leaked all over my driveway, and seen very few Subies (that use liquid gaskets) that have seeped enough to dump oil spots on a driveway - every physical gasket based car I've had in the past eventually leaked so much that my driveway would be dotted with oil.
I still remember the days of when a stop for gas (every stop for gas) included checking fluids, including oil; not just because it burned out, but because it dripped out too. 28 of my cars have not been Subies. Most of those had physical gaskets. All of those with physical gaskets leaked at some point in their lives - not seeped, but leaked/dripped.
BUT, today, our gasket technology combined with better machining of the parts, may make physical gaskets more reliable than liquid. Who knows? That would be an interesting study that would be very difficult to control for and test (and/or very expensive to do so).
On ANOTHER note for everyone following along, just to be clear...
The portion of the title that refers to "fake statistics" applies to both AgentK and myself (hence I did not name either he nor me), as the CONTENT of the comments states or implies that about both of our various comments - you all can decide who it applies to... him, me, both of us, or "not worth bothering".
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The new steel type ones have not exhibited the problem, fortunately, but, regardless, it's cheap insurance and an easy installation.... I even made a vid that though inspired by the hose design change TSB, delves into the PCV valve so everyone can see how easy it is to do the replacement...
It's pretty much the same for the OBXT and OBW for those who have one of them - I've already had Outback owners follow it to do theirs. Just always confirm the most recent part numbers.
True. When I've referred various social media discussions to this board and specific threads on this board, my posts have been deleted (hence the most popular posters, not the most accurate posters prevail).
Regardless of some of the controversies that have brewed on this site in the 6 years I've participated, it is still the most reliably accurate (and quickest) source of answers. This is due in large part because of the active participation of experienced "car guys" and Subaru "insiders". That's not something every car forum can proclaim (and it factored into my decision to buy my first ASCENT).
I've been retired for quite a few years so my numbers are just guestimate but you'll get the idea. In the tech industry and aerospace for 40 years where the consumer investment was in the millions, sometimes billions of dollars, we fought hard to win customers and then keep costumers. We'd say things like it's 20 times harder to win a customer than keep a customer. Said another way, every unhappy customer takes 20 more along with them. In the age of social media, every negative post is lost sales with direct impact on the bottom line.
I'm old enough to have been the gas jockey doing those checks and top-offs. BTW there were NO leak-free engines or transmissions in cars from the 50s, 60s and 70s. When I came home from work I looked like I spent the day on an oil rig.
It's one of the reasons I won't fix a slow leak. The factory applied the RTV by robot, the repair tech is going to do it by hand. Unless I'm the one doing the repair, I'll let it leak.
I had a BMW 325. When it was off the 3-yr warranty, I took it to an independent garage for service. They told me "just so you know that your car is leaking oil, but all BMWs do." My Odyssey leaked too, oil and power steering build, at Year-8. of owner ship
my 2021 Ascent has 35K or so miles (I forget the exact amount). I took it in to the dealer for an oil change, they found both the engine seal and oil pan gasket leaking. Car was out of commission for over a week while they repaired. The tech there told me the factory applied seals or garbage. Huge issue. My 2002 WRX had 345k miles on it, no oil leaks. 🤷🏽♂️
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15,802 Posts
I'm dubious about what any technician says that takes over a week to reseal a liquid gasket. 😉
Many technicians think the liquid gasket is worse than the physical ones just because they are stuck in the past.
Whether true or not, the car companies are claiming the opposite.
A tech I trust at my local dealership has indicated the same.
A successful reseal requires a lot of work that involves ensuring the mating services are perfectly clean and free of contamination, applying the sealant consistently and in the right quantity followed by the proper amount of cure time prior to starting the engine.
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15,802 Posts
24 hours. Not a week or more. That's per both the product specs and the service manual.
Labor is 3-5 hours for lower alone, 10.5 for upper alone, 11.5 for both. And those are conservative figures.
Some shops with inexperienced techs quote an absurd 30 hours for just the upper. I wonder if they're charging labor for the time it's sitting curing.
‘19 Ascent Premium/ ‘22 Quintana Roo SRFIVE/ ‘23 Odyssey Sport
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4,887 Posts
I halfway step out for a weekend and nearly miss this gem of a thread… 😳 🤣
Since AI can’t lie to us (take that with a grain or two of salt), here’s the final answer:
Since AI can’t lie to us (take that with a grain or two of salt), here’s the final answer:
It certainly shouldn’t take a week to carry out the repair. However, I would much prefer a dealership that tells me a week versus the dealership that tells me it can be done in the same day.
I’m guessing the dealership told the customer a week to be on the safe side and allow some buffer, which in my view is prudent. Any dealer will obviously have a workload and it’s easier to promise a customer a seven day completion than to try to rush the job in a couple of days while juggling other jobs.
Nobody has ever said “hey, that sealant was allowed to cure for too long!”
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Heck yes!!!! I fight against that nonsense whenever it comes up. The hood bonding issues was one such where they'd return the car in a few hours instead of keeping inside curing overnight. I reported a couple of dealerships for doing that disservice to owners.
I think that this is something that virtually nobody truly understands. Just because the actual repair time is "X" hours, doesn't mean your car will be ready to go at X+5 minutes. And also that your car is not being worked on every second it's in the shop (for a whole variety of good or understandable reasons).
It would be really helpful if there was more transparency on this from the outset. I know many dealers will have the service advisor check in with customers intermittently, but TBH, they're just a middleman and don't really know what's going on in the back. I would love to one day actually hear from the technician what's going on. But they've got their hands full (and greasy).
It reads like every discussion of statistics vs crowd sourced data ever debated.I halfway step out for a weekend and nearly miss this gem of a thread… 😳 🤣
Since AI can’t lie to us (take that with a grain or two of salt), here’s the final answer:
Which leaves us with the only accurate descriptor being "known problems".
I'm glad I had my coffee and some bacon before stumbling on this thread. Geez, somebody is a Mr. Angrypants.
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173 Posts
I personally own a 2022 ascent (36k) and own a dealership that specializes in Subarus. We’ve sold dozens of the ascents and have had virtually no engine oil leaks. I think we had one with a cam tower reseal. That being said if my wife wants to keep driving the ascent past powertrain warranty, I’m considering buying an extended warranty. I think they’re very good overall. Especially considering everyone seems to be be selling junk these days (including Toyota). And would buy another one if they keep making them.
2023 Ascent touring, 1999 legacy 30th ann wgn, 1997 OBS wgn
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23 Posts
I have to agree.
2023 Ascent touring, 1999 legacy 30th ann wgn, 1997 OBS wgn
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23 Posts
I think the pool of people who are clearly having these issues is large enough to warrant some pause and consideration.
The bury your head in the sand method is short sighted.
Let's have some mutual respect and swallow some of the ego that's in this thread.
Clearly there's enough information starting to come out to believe that there's some merit to these complaints. Even if it's a little early or there's not enough to compound statistics, it's definitely more than just coincidence at this point.
At the very least if Ascent owners are more aware they will hopefully start keeping an eye out and it will serve them well in educational ways and preventative maintenance. Isn't that part of why this forum is here?
For context and a little background on myself I was turning wrenches at 16, I started as a mechanics apprentice, owned an import tuner shop before it was cool, was the head Auction buyer for a chain of 58 dealerships and have spent the better part of 50 years in and around the automotive industry.
I have enjoyed this forum and most of the them with the exception of this thread. I found it condescending and alienating. We can do better. This is not a contest it's a place where people can come to share, learn, grow, teach and help each other. Car culture has always been about finding common interests and sharing your passions unless you're into Ford's those guys suck! JK Sorry ford lovers it was just a joke. I really enjoy helping you fix your crap all the damn time. lol
But there is just no evidence that oil leak is a major problem with the 23. Several of us keep quoting Consumer Reports because they systematically track reliability issues over a long period of time and the Power train in the Ascent has been "better than average" since the 2021 model year. There is not even enough personal anecdotal evidence to support this claim here—given the number of Ascent sold yearly, 50,000 (per ChatGPT), I have not seen any complain on oil leak in this forum. May be I miss it but I come here once a day so it the complains are so rampant, I would have seen it regularly. I have a 23 but I dont here to tell people all the problems I don't have.
Because there are people coming here to research for new cars, being fair is important.
Attachments
There have been a number of posts about leaks, but it's not a "yuge" number and not likely out of line with the industry that moved to the gloop-on sealing material rather than old fashions fiber/composite gaskets.
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