But my Uncle Billy has runned straight 40 in his 87 Mustang GEE TEE and says I should run 20W-30!

 

It's always a smart play to stick with the manufacturer's recommendations.

 

So, do what you wish... but be aware that four times so far, via multiple channels, I've gotten responses indicating the above in one form or another.

When I'm doing my delivery, and I go through the owners manuals and books, I make it pretty simple. (Note the following opening line only applies to Maintain the Love stores.)

You get four free oil changes with us, every 6 months or 6,000 miles, whichever comes first. After that first 2 years or 24,000 miles, if you want to go somewhere else, let me write this here and tell you. Your car is designed to use 0W-20 full synthetic oil. This is not an option, this is a requirement. This engine does not have the huge tolerances and gaps to use conventional weight motor oil like you'd put in your lawnmower. So please don't do it.

 

I don't even know why it's for debate. It's in the owner's manual from SOA. if it says 0W-20 that's what you put. Simple.

Well said.

 

I've found that Olive Oil does great! It's cheaper and makes a great smell too while you're driving. Feels like Italy!

 

My favorite part of their response was where they said "its nice that people have opinions, but we put it in the manual because we really meant it" ?

At least that's how I read it.

 

0W-20 has a better oil base than most 5w-30s anyways from what i understand and you could probably get away with running 0w-16 or 0w-8 as they do in Japan more than other countries and same could be said for 5w-30....the only problem i see with running 5w-30 is more wear at cold starts when temps drops and more load on engine which could cause to run hotter and get less MPG. I don't think running 5w-30 syn would cause any major issues within 100k, but why take the chance and the main advantage of lighter weight oils seems to be MPG and cold weather starts??

I don't think it will be long before we see 0w-8 come filled from the factory in compact cars and maybe even the Ascent to get those MPG numbers to creep up.

 

0W-20 has a better oil base than most 5w-30s anyways from what i understand and you could probably get away with running 0w-16 or 0w-8 as they do in Japan more than other countries and same could be said for 5w-30....the only problem i see with running 5w-30 is more wear at cold starts when temps drops and more load on engine which could cause to run hotter and get less MPG. I don't think running 5w-30 syn would cause any major issues within 100k, but why take the chance and the main advantage of lighter weight oils seems to be MPG and cold weather starts??

I don't think it will be long before we see 0w-8 come filled from the factory in compact cars and maybe even the Ascent to get those MPG numbers to creep up.

My only confusion on this whole oil matter is: I live in california, does a cold start of 5 vs 0 really matters for me? so it comes down to whether viscosity of 30 is better at normal running temperature or 20?

 

I run what is in the manual. The biggest concern will be for those that go to Jiffy Lube or other quick lube places. They throw in whatever hose is close to the car. I know in my wife's Mazda 6 my brother in law warned my wife and her car had a lot of issues by the time we hit 100,000 miles and I think part of that might have been do to oil. Follow the manual!

 

Always good advise to follow the manual especially for Turbo engines, but who says what they put in the manual is what is "best" for the engine in the long run? Could it not also be best for them and their bottom dollar??? I have no idea, but i also know that other people and companies need to also lookout for themselves.


"But what's behind so many makers of ordinary cars requiring expensive synthetic oil in the first place? Linden says automakers can save between 0.5 and 1 percent on EPA fuel economy tests compared with 5W-20 motor oil. The tests are run starting with a cold engine, so the lower viscosity reduces friction until the engine warms up.

Indeed, when Honda first presented us with details about the 2012 CR-V, company engineers emphasized that they had gained 2 mpg in EPA fuel economy ratings mainly by reducing friction in the engine and other mechanical components, not by introducing new technologies like direct fuel injection or continuously variable transmissions.

We generally support any technology that can improve fuel economy. But in this case, we wonder whether some consumers who purchase new cars may feel blindsided by the increased cost of their oil changes. And since 0W-20 mainly only improves fuel economy for the first few seconds of driving, we question whether the fuel economy gains are really worth the added costs for consumers over the life of the car.

Regardless, it is quite possible that your next new car will require ultra-thin, synthetic 0W-20 motor oil. That is, until new standards come along. Linden says SAE is already working on standards for 0W-16 and 0W-12 blends, as well as what to even call thinner oils. No word yet on how much those will cost the consumer"

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro...ws/2012/09/fuel-economy-race-brings-expensive-oil-to-inexpensive-cars/index.htm

 

Yeah, I've been wary of Jiffy Lube for a bit. Honestly with where the oil filter is, and installing the drain valve; it's ridiculously easy to do your own. I may consider that as an option if I decide to do my own.
If I do have someone else do it; I will be for sure going to a much closer dealer to my house than the 60 miles to the other one I drove to to buy it

 

And just to

, here is what Subaru Corp in Japan says about what oil is best. This is from another Subaru forum, where the debate rages on between what is best for your car, and what is spec'd in the manual.


********************************************************************

For those interested in the Subaru Japan comparison of 0w-30 vs 0w-20, I have translated this page for everyone:

0w-30:
High oil temperature engine protection - 4/5
Fuel economy - 4/5
Dirt resistance inside the engine - 5/5
Low temperature starting performance - 4/5
Exhaust gas performance (emissions) - 3/5
Usage feeling (smooth feeling) - 5/5

0w-20 "eco"
High oil temperature engine protection - 2/5 (yikes!)
Fuel economy - 5/5
Dirt resistance inside the engine - 3/5
Low temperature starting performance - 5/5
Exhaust gas performance (emissions) - 4/5
Usage feeling (smooth feeling) - 3/5


0w-20 "standard"
High oil temperature engine protection - 2/5 (yikes!)
Fuel economy - 4/5
Dirt resistance inside the engine - 4/5
Low temperature starting performance - 4/5
Exhaust gas performance (emissions) - 5/5
Usage feeling (smooth feeling) - 3/5

 

... I have translated this page for everyone:...
0w-20 "eco"
High oil temperature engine protection - 2/5 (yikes!)...

What's Japanese for "yikes"?

 

I just bought the oil pump for taking the oil out from the top without even doing the valve at the bottom. That plus the filter on top should mean a 5 min oil change with little/no mess! I've always done my own changes but now it'll be even easier. Also means I can do it more often if I feel like it!

 

What oil pump is that?

 

Are you sure? They actually recommend the 0w-20 for FA motors.

Because it is smooth oil from low temperature to high temperature, the engine runs lightly at any time.
The shear viscosity at 100 ° C, which is the normal oil temperature range, is kept low, the viscous drag which interferes with fuel saving performance is small, and it leads directly to fuel saving.

 

When the debate finally settles down, in 10 years we'll have to find this thread when we're all jabbering about 0w16 or 0w8.

 

Yes, and 3 cylinder deactivation on a a 4 cylinder engine.

 

Once an engine is up a running, the bearings don't care what the oil viscosity is. Because it's a rotating part, water would work (some propeller shaft bearings on boats use water). However, other engine parts that don't rotate do care very much - as do bearings when first starting up.


No, 5W-30 isn't going to damage your engine. 0W-20 was chosen to get better MPG, not because engineers prefer it. 5W-30 isn't going to screw up the variable cam timing or get hung up in those tiny engine passages.


Subaru correctly figures that most people don't keep their cars long enough to see any difference in engine wear.

 

Guys, turbos are different.

..and not all synthetic 0W20 oils are the same.

I’m sure thats why they are saying 5w30 when 0w20 is not available.

When I ran Mobil 1 0w20 through an oil test, it was thin compared to others. (Viscosity on the low end of the 0w20 spec, whereas Redline 0w20 was on the heavier side of the specification.

Funny enough, Mobil 1 5w30 is on the low end of the specification for 5w30 oil, which makes it pretty darned nice for use in a 0W20 automobile. (Synthetic oils being different from more conventional oils with how the long chain molcules wind and unwind to act like 0W or 30W.)

 

I firmly believe e oil threads and oil angst are never ending because it is one of the few items the average owner can "control". The rest of the workings are a mystery and everyone wants to think they can improve on what they have. Never mind that there are highly paid, multiple engineers devising this stuff, and the average office Joe hasn't got a clue. But he still wants to out guess the engineers.


I'm a firm believer in synthetic oil. I was selling the stuff when Mobil 1 was introduced in the 70's. At the shop, we did our own "unscientific" testing. We found that almost all vehicles got better mileage. Oil pressure went up a lot faster on cold (very cold) starts. The oil spouts would slide out of the can when you picked it up by the spout (remember oil cans and oil spouts?) And we could leave the cans of Mobil 1 out on the gas islands in the coldest winter days and they would still pour. Conventional oils wouldn't. After we got some experience with wear factors, everything was better with synthetic. We also learned that film strength had a lot more importance than just weight. Yet, there are still people that won't let go of old tractor and Harley feelings of heavier is better.


I became an Amsoil believer. The stuff was quite good to me and my engines. All my vehicles had well over 200k with no evidence of oil related failures or even much wear. I don't know who makes Subaru Synthetic oil, but if it is even near as good, I am confident that the specified oil will be great. I accepted a 10 year oil change package with the dealer, so I hope it is. I've personally never let anyone else change my oil in anything for my life so far until now.

I think the bigger factor may be how careful you are with the hygiene of the oil change. All the care in the choice of the oil goes out the window if the guy changing it is clumsy and introduces contaminates into the oil. Along with that, frequent cold, short trips are hard. Otherwise people, relax! Your oil is OK. 0w-20 is good for close tolerance mechanicals as thicker oil wont flow through there as easily. And better flow carries heat away more effectively. It is all about film strength.

 

An oil weight question for the Canadian version of Ascent.

My maintenance manual (page 24) states that 5w 30 is “required” for all 2019 turbo models.
Yet my oil filler cap says 0w 20.

I’m not ready for the first change yet and will probably let the dealer do the first one.
However, I would like to make sure that I’m using the right grade when I do the job myself.

 

Hi fellow Canadian,

Even though the Maintenance/warranty booklet says 5W-30, the main Ascent Owner's Manual says 0W-20 (p. 487). I think that Subaru Canada forgot to update the Maintenance booklet with the Ascent in mind (it's the first Subaru turbo that uses 0W-20). But please let us know what they tell you if you call in.

 

Canadian...

Hi @Leroy Lemon, I'd ask Subaru Canada.

 

Had a chat with both Subaru Canada and my dealer's service department and both said 0w 20 synthetic is the grade to use.

 

We got a mention!

2019 Subaru Ascent long-term update: Easiest oil change ever

Maintenance is part of almost any vehicle ownership experience. If you're a DIYer, you'll love how easy it is to handle oil changes in Subaru's biggest SUV.

www.cnet.com

 

LOL, I saw that too.

 

Hello, new to the forums; 2021 Ascent owner as of 11/14/20

I owned until recently a 2017 Civic with the 1.5t engine, and the "best" oil viscosity was hotly debated on the Civic forums as well. One resource I came across:

540 RAT - Tech Facts, NOT Myths

540ratblog.wordpress.com

I don't take rat 540's word as gospel, but I think there's useful info in there. Some tidbits I found:
1. oil film strength and viscosity aren't correlated
2. If one had to choose an ideal weight for any modern engine it'd be a synthetic 5w30 - I'd have to agree with this
3. thinner oils pump faster and cool engine internals better, thicker oils maintain oil pressure better.

On the civic forums, some people thought any deviation from the manufacturer recommended 0w20 would cause the sky to fall, voided warranty etc.
So I did it anyway.
I submitted a number of UOAs; I tried Amsoil signature series "new" formulation 0w20, 0w30 and 5w30, QSUD (quaker state ultimate durability) 0w20 and the older signature series 0w30, all with 5k intervals. I also compared my results to other owners submitting UOAs with Amsoil, Mobil-1, QSUD, Honda OE (Idemitsu), Penz. platinum etc.
My observations:
Amsoil is good stuff (no, I'm not a dealer), but it's also one of the most expensive.
Amsoil 0w20, 0w30 and 5w30 all produced fantastic (low) wear metals, 0w30 being the best, but all very close. The new Amsoil formulation was definitely better than the old one. The wear metals with QSUD 0w20 weren't terrible, but were about twice as high as Amsoil.
The heavier oils almost always fall into the 20w range after 4-5k miles
I also have a Civic type r, and I ran Amsoil 0w30 and 5w30 and got great wear numbers
My opinions: I think the 0w20 oils are recommended largely for fuel economy ratings. The argument that they're required for the close tolerances (sic) I think is dealer BS. What they're trying to refer to is piston skirt, ring and bearing clearances.. and I don't think you can build an engine tight enough, allowing for thermal expansion, where it would matter if 0w20 was used. The thing would seize, idling in traffic. That being said, I'll plan on running Amsoil 0w20 in the Ascent at least until the warranty expires. It's a different engine, but it performed well in my Honda 1.5t. I'd definitely consider a heavier weight if I was towing for extended periods, or lived in a hot climate.
JMO, hope this helps.

 

@DKL something to keep in mind are the differences in a horizontally opposed boxer engine, and an upwards I or V facing standard engine. There's some interesting differences in how oil pools, how it flows and how it needs to be pumped, in a piston-sideways, H4 or H6 configuration. Besides fuel economy, I wonder how much of that went into the consideration.

Anyways, I tow a lot, and I put my engine through a lot more abuse than towing creates, and I run the OEM Idemitsu Subaru branded 0W-20 oil, and expect no issues. At just shy of the 70,000 mile mark, I will do an oil analysis (November 23rd's oil change).

 

Want to start some drama on oil weight ? Go to the Ram Hemi forum and start a thread 5w20 vs 5w30 in your truck lol

 

Has anyone used something like a 0w-40 oil in their Ascent's engine? I would consider using a light 0w-40 like Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum Euro (or PUP) in the FA24F myself because I like to play that way 👍

 

It's best to use the oil weight and specification that Subaru says is required...which is 0W-20.

 

What would be the aim and how would the effects be evaluated/quantified?

 

Note that the viscosity grades for oils (the "20", "40", etc.) represent measured viscosity ranges at certain temperatures (at 100*C, actually). Your engine oil is almost never at exactly that temperature. In fact, our engine oil very often never does get that warm (at least indicated on the dash-top display). Temperature will certainly vary throughout the engine (in the pan, in a journal, at the bearing surface, etc.), but we can go only with what we can directly observe, at least for a casual conversation like this.

But again, the grade number represents a range of viscosity units...it's not the viscosity itself. A 20 grade oil (such as a 0W-20 or a 5W-20) must have a viscosity of between 5.6 and 9.3 cSt (centistokes) at 100*C. At only 60*C, or 80*C, the actual measured viscosity of a 20 grade oil will be higher, probably in the 10-12 cSt range. The viscosity range of a 5W-20 will increase faster as it cools than a 0W-20 will. A 40 grade oil must have a viscosity of between 12.5 and 16.3 cSt at 100*C. Again, at lower temperatures, it'll be even higher than that. It's not like the engine will blow up with a thicker oil. Even a 0W-20 is way too thick at startup to be optimal (hundreds of cSt probably, depending on the temperature).

Subaru says clearly that a 30 grade oil is acceptable, but that a 20 grade oil should be used at the next opportunity. I believe they say this because 0W-20 was used during fuel economy certification and they're required by law to recommend the same oil be used during service. This is to avoid using something like a 5 grade oil for fuel economy testing and then filling and recommending a 30 grade oil for longevity.

Interesting aside: when 20 grade oils first started appearing, people would say that they're "thin like water", especially with a hot drain. They're actually not. Water has a viscosity of about 1 cSt at 18*C. At 18*C, when a 5W- or a 0W-20 is measured in the hundreds of cSt, water's at 1 cSt.

 

Note that the viscosity grades for oils (the "20", "40", etc.) represent measured viscosity ranges at certain temperatures (at 100*C, actually). Your engine oil is almost never at exactly that temperature. In fact, our engine oil very often never does get that warm (at least indicated on the dash-top display). Temperature will certainly vary throughout the engine (in the pan, in a journal, at the bearing surface, etc.), but we can go only with what we can directly observe, at least for a casual conversation like this.

....

What's the temperature of your engine oil during normal operation?