If you haven't heard about it, it only means you are uninformed, feel free to do your own research, it's been reported everywhere, on these boards, other online boards, objective Subaru excperts on various platforms.
AgentK
It's not a widespread issue.
Oil pan leaks are "well known issues" since the creation of the automobile.
Links to them please. My Senior Master Technician friends who work across the country at different dealerships, and usually b...h about every issue, disagree.
There are nearing THREE QUARTER OF A MILLION of these engines out there. That's your stats basis?
No offence, but you’re way off base on this issue. It’s a thing. Everyone except Subaru seems to know about the FA series engine oil leaks.
The moment Subaru releases that information we’ll have the stats basis, until then we can simply see so many people are having issues on a model which is at most 8 years old and and sold on low numbers compared to other vehicles in the class. The other stat would be great to see is how may CVT transmissions were replaced overall.
He is getting to the point of becoming "Young Scotty". He's not a source of statistics.
So, no offense, but, no. I'm not a fan of made up "stats".
Does suck for the relatively small percent of people who experience a leak though.
Seriously, if you count EVERY social media post for the FA24F and then take it to account over 700,000 of them being out there, let me know if you honestly think there's really "a lot".
Now, if you said CVT oil pump cover seal, I'd wholeheartedly agree.
You’re ignoring reality, no offense. The hundreds or thousands of reports we see here is a tiny fraction of the people that experienced this, the vast majority of Ascent owners don’t know these boards exists, and the vast majority of those who do, don’t post here. So what we do have is countless reports of the problem existing, physical and logical explanation to why this is happening and NO evidence to contradict that it is a widespread problem, other than of course you saying ‘He is young Scotty’.
Hundreds or thousands? That's funny. For one thing, it doesn't even hit 1% until you break 7000.
And skipping the fact he's got no stats, no access to information, no knowledge of failure rates, no army of technicians to ask, you know nothing of "MrSubaru" it seems.
Something you should keep in mind is that I never went around trying to build an audience unlike him and others. I built communities instead, not based on sensationalism or made up facts, but based on trying to deliver accuracy to you all. I have pointed out problems and I have pointed out when things are not problems. Not based on sensationalizing things to create a following for myself but based on building a community, or actually numerous Subaru communities. Breaking half a million people in the next couple of months.
Yes, I have half a million people in the communities that I started, grew and manage.. and I built that in a very short amount of time. I could easily have built up my own persona like him instead of building Subaru communities. Instead I focused on delivering for the communities and building the communities. And I built those communities by being critical of Subaru when it was warranted and by correcting misinformation when feelings got in the way of actual numbers and reality.
So sure, go ahead and believe the people who spent all their time saying whatever it takes to build their own persona for their own following and for their own financial gain. That's an interesting method of confirmation bias.
Feel free to explain why he is wrong, why miles of cheap RTV is actually the best gasket material and provide stats disproving any of these claims.
The fact that you’re laughing at hundreds and thousands out of a tiny population shows how you are not interesting in objectively. These are not hundreds or thousands out of 3/4 of a millions owners, it is hundreds and thousands out of hundreds and thousands of people who would be willing to write about it in these forums. For every one that posts there can be 10s, 100s or 1000s of owners sitting there and thinking that’s exactly what happened to them. Basic concepts of statistics.
Again, Subaru doesn’t release this data so obviously nobody can prove this with official data, but what we do have is A LOT of anecdotal evidence and logical and technical explanation as to why this is happening. LOLing and calling names is not a valid disproval, it just shows that there is no valid argument against it.
See, I think this is where you have a very limited understanding of how cars are built. Seepage because of RTV being used as a sealant for things like oil pans is an industry-wide problem that is no worse on a Subaru than any other vehicle. The reason being, is that everyone uses it. It is not a Subaru thing.
Edit:
Here's a SHORT and VERY incomplete list:
Ford, GM,Chrysler, Mazda, Honda, Acura, Lexus, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia, BMW and yes, Subaru.
That's NOT statistics - that's NONSENSE.
You seriously think making up multiplication factors that are so ridiculously different equals statistics? It just proves you have no idea how many.
See and you are wrong there as well. I am laughing at you implying that hundreds of people are a large percentage as you keep stating is happening. I am absolutely not laughing at how it affects the people whose car it happens to. I made that very clear specifically above. Go check. And then hopefully you will stop mischaracterizing what I'm saying.
Regardless, it is a fraction of a percent. That's simply math, and I'm laughing at the fact that you don't seem to understand how small of a number it is.
I am going to circle back around to this further down below, because I also don't think you have any understanding of how large my sample pool is versus yours.
You keep making weird statements like this as if it's fact. Subaru releases a lot of data in places that you can't look or haven't bothered to. In this case, all you need to do is use Google translate. But you didn't. I do so regularly so I can try to give you all the most accurate information. Subaru Japan releases a lot of information on these things, but you don't seem to want to take any effort to look. If this was such a massive problem, it would be in a Subaru Japan factbook, as some of the problems that actually were big ended up being in.
Things like that, that affect their bottom line do actually get into their annual reports. Go look and you won't find this. You will find things like sealing the CVT oil pump chain cover, or the Forester TCV issue. You will even find them go on for pages about quality control issues they are working on resolving with vendors. You will find numbers to support these things as well. Yes, if it is a big issue, Subaru actually literally does report on it. You just didn't bother to look. If you had, you would have found all of these other things in their fact books an annual reports. What you would not find is a massive issue of these engines leaking because it is not happening in the ridiculously high numbers you keep implying it is.
Regardless, even if there was data that was readily available for you to go through, you still wouldn't believe it. Especially when you conflate dozens of reports here as a very large percentage of failures. On a related note, if you actually knew anything about some of the failures reported here, you'd realize that a lot of them were actually the CVT oil pump chain cover leaking on the back side of the engine.
I have around 100,000 members in our groups that run these engines. I don't rely on just this little small forum.
And let's be clear, I have not called anyone names.
I will promise you all this... Just like with the recall information I share, sometimes even before the recall is officially announced, whether it is big or small, if the issue actually ever does get to the level where it becomes a reportable item on Subaru's reports, I will come back to this topic and let you all know.
But that is what I have always done. Hundreds of times.
But feel free to go ahead and believe someone who makes a ton of money off of sensationalized YouTube videos. Don't get me wrong, a lot of his videos are great and informative. But sensationalism sells and gets views.
Anyway I have a long weekend of trying to get through some long overdue work on filming CVT stuff for you all in the community so that you all can be more knowledgeable on the units and what it takes to make them last for a very long time, so I am going to sleep.
Enjoy your weekend.
But that is what I have always done. Hundreds of times.
But feel free to go ahead and believe someone who makes a ton of money off of sensationalized YouTube videos. Don't get me wrong, a lot of his videos are great and informative. But sensationalism sells and gets views.
Anyway I have a long weekend of trying to get through some long overdue work on filming CVT stuff for you all in the community so that you all can be more knowledgeable on the units and what it takes to make them last for a very long time, so I am going to sleep.
Enjoy your weekend.
lol, why would customers paying for repairs hurt Subaru’s bottom line? Hilarious. From what we can see it becomes an issue typically around 70k miles, so after the warranty is over, which means most folks need to pay out of pocket. Anyway, you don’t seem to understand what is being said about how statistics work and honestly I don’t care enough to try and convince you. Keep ignoring reality, life is simpler that way.
Statistics do not work by you making up the number of reports and then multiplying by a 100 and then making up some random additional multiplication factor for how many people are actually having it using a small sample size. There are only 20,000 people in this forum, while I have a sample size of 100,000.
And no, this issue doesn't have some magical 70,000 MI time frame when it starts to happen. I don't know where you heard that, but that's nonsensical.
Let's pretend that's true though, that would still be a big hit on Subaru's bottom line because many of these cars are under warranty to 100,000 or 120,000 miles. Nationwide average across brands is 37% of new car buyers get an extended warranty. Subarus percentage is rather decently higher because the Subaru gold plan covers almost everything under the sun beyond consumables. So, once again, you are not correct. You're talking about a number that's well over a third of owners have a warranty that would still cover the car.
And even for the ones that are not, the negative publicity of the type of problem that you erroneously think is happening, would be a big harm to their bottom line.
Anyway, you've made up numbers, you've made up statistics, you've made up multiplication factors, and you are ignoring everything else. You are welcome to do that. I will continue to report on what's really happening and if this ever does rise to the level where it gets put into a factbook, I will report that to as I always have.
By the way, I am not making up my numbers about my group memberships. Here are a few of them. I created and run dozens more. Unless noted as a forum, it is a Facebook group.
Like I’ve said, basic statistics, the lack of understanding here is astonishing. Do you know what sample size is? The 20k people here is not the sample size, we didn’t sample 20k people. Your 100k sample is not a sample size either, you don’t have 100k UNIQUE individuals.
The sample size is WAY smaller, first, the hundreds of posts about oil leaks we have here is not out of 20k members, most of these members never posted anything and even if they did it doesn’t mean they did not have any issue if they didn’t post about oil leaks. For example, my front struts are failing, I don’t think I’ve posted about it, so does it means they are not actually failing?
So what do we have, no basic understanding of what your 100k number means, the 20k number means, how stats are gathered and how they are applied to larger populations. But hey, that guy is ‘Young Scotty’ and we are all blind.
Now I am wondering if you're trolling. You literally made up numbers, over and over again, and change those numbers repeatedly, sometimes in the same sentence (seriously, it's all above). You literally are acting like you don't understand that Facebook and other platforms (for the group creators) actually track uniques vs dupes and return visitors? All while ignoring that Subaru Japan releases Fact Books on this stuff?
(also, the grass isn't greener...)
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If you want to continue this, let me know and I will split this off. But otherwise, let's get back to topic.
BACK to topic...
Yes, with the catalytic converter and turbo inside the engine bay, above the underside guard, the engine compartment can get very hot.
This, btw, is a MAJOR concern of mine when choosing wire to do wiring for aftermarket accessories. I buy heat resistant stuff.
(also, the grass isn't greener...)
If you want to continue this, let me know and I will split this off. But otherwise, let's get back to topic.
BACK to topic...
Yes, with the catalytic converter and turbo inside the engine bay, above the underside guard, the engine compartment can get very hot.
This, btw, is a MAJOR concern of mine when choosing wire to do wiring for aftermarket accessories. I buy heat resistant stuff.
You continue to prove that you don’t understand what is being said, I’m a member of about 5 of the groups you mentioned yet I’m one person! Do you understand what that means for the ‘size sample’ you use to show that hundreds is a tiny fraction? Not to mention it’s not a size sample because NOBODY SAMPLED them! The Japanese fact book is meaningless because most owners pay for it themselves or fix it outside of dealer network or not fix it at all and just live with the oil leak, like was suggested here, on FB and Reddit to do may times. Not only that, Subaru sells 1m cars, out of which I to 60k are Ascents, combine that with Outback and WRX, it’s still not a large portion of Subarus vehicles sold, so we are talking about an engine that represents MAYBE 10% of sales, and an issue that typically appears after the warranty is over, so it’s definitely not going to hurt Subarus bottom line.
The funny thing is that on the one hand your are staying the issues doesn’t exist, on the other you are saying other cars makers have this nonexistent issue as well. So which is it?
Also, since you brought up other issues that Subaru did recognize, like the TCV on the Forester, that TSB was issued in mid 2024, while the issue exists since model year 2019. So the fact that nothing we don’t have acknowledgment yet doesn’t mean there won’t be in the future, and even if there won’t be it doesn’t mean the issue doesn’t exist. Anyway, we are going back and forth and you don’t seem to understand what I’m saying or how numbers and stats work. This isn’t going anywhere.
I am splitting this to a separate topic since you won't stop.
And the "most owners pay..." part is more made up stuff.
So, now I am sure you are trolling.
So, I am splitting this to its own thread, and then ignoring it. I don't like engaging with trolls, and I am saddened that you'd decide to troll on this topic (or just make up nonsense and then totally ignore anything I said that you didn't want to address) after all of your other great contributions to this group.
Nearly SEVEN HUNDRED THOUSAND of these engines are on the road. And I am not adding up all 500,000 members - I am pulling out Outback Wilderness, WRX and Ascent members ONLY.
And the "most owners pay..." part is more made up stuff.
I never said the issue doesn't exist. I have repeatedly said it does. It just isnt the hundreds of thousands of people you claim to be affected - you literally said that above with your "statistics".
So, now I am sure you are trolling.
DEFINITELY sure you're trolling now. You're being very selective in the stuff you ignore that I clearly stated, often numerous times.
So, I am splitting this to its own thread, and then ignoring it. I don't like engaging with trolls, and I am saddened that you'd decide to troll on this topic (or just make up nonsense and then totally ignore anything I said that you didn't want to address) after all of your other great contributions to this group.
Definitely not uncommon - but not the rampant problem some want to claim it is.
There's a common belief out there that car manufacturers (literally all of them) switching to gasket adhesives vs a physical gasket, is the cause of this. The problem exists relatively equally across brands it seems, based on forum chatter.
In the case of a Subaru, it can be a little more expensive as there's two oil pan gaskets, but, neither are phenomenally expensive. People out of warranty should shop around, as some dealers charge insane prices to do either of them.
Not really. Probably less likely, since it's not a top down design where everything tries to flow into the oil pan. But us having an upper and lower oil pan may make up for that?
Indeed - and especially not just because of I4 vs Boxer, but also because most cars use transverse mounted engines, so, the exhaust doesn't go under it like a "cradle" - unlike Subaru's.
Liquid gasket vs physical gasket
I wanted to circle back to this topic. There's arguments that one is better than the other (pick a side, people on both). But one thing is clear - manufacturers, regardless of which is best, are using liquid gaskets, in part because a computer can do all the sealing work, vs a human installing a physical gasket.
THAT aside, I have NEVER owned a Subie that outright leaked all over my driveway, and seen very few Subies (that use liquid gaskets) that have seeped enough to dump oil spots on a driveway - every physical gasket based car I've had in the past eventually leaked so much that my driveway would be dotted with oil.
I still remember the days of when a stop for gas (every stop for gas) included checking fluids, including oil; not just because it burned out, but because it dripped out too. 28 of my cars have not been Subies. Most of those had physical gaskets. All of those with physical gaskets leaked at some point in their lives - not seeped, but leaked/dripped.
BUT, today, our gasket technology combined with better machining of the parts, may make physical gaskets more reliable than liquid. Who knows? That would be an interesting study that would be very difficult to control for and test (and/or very expensive to do so).
On ANOTHER note for everyone following along, just to be clear...
The portion of the title that refers to "fake statistics" applies to both AgentK and myself (hence I did not name either he nor me), as the CONTENT of the comments states or implies that about both of our various comments - you all can decide who it applies to... him, me, both of us, or "not worth bothering".
True. When I've referred various social media discussions to this board and specific threads on this board, my posts have been deleted (hence the most popular posters, not the most accurate posters prevail).
Regardless of some of the controversies that have brewed on this site in the 6 years I've participated, it is still the most reliably accurate (and quickest) source of answers. This is due in large part because of the active participation of experienced "car guys" and Subaru "insiders". That's not something every car forum can proclaim (and it factored into my decision to buy my first ASCENT).
I've been retired for quite a few years so my numbers are just guestimate but you'll get the idea. In the tech industry and aerospace for 40 years where the consumer investment was in the millions, sometimes billions of dollars, we fought hard to win customers and then keep costumers. We'd say things like it's 20 times harder to win a customer than keep a customer. Said another way, every unhappy customer takes 20 more along with them. In the age of social media, every negative post is lost sales with direct impact on the bottom line.
I'm old enough to have been the gas jockey doing those checks and top-offs. BTW there were NO leak-free engines or transmissions in cars from the 50s, 60s and 70s. When I came home from work I looked like I spent the day on an oil rig.
It's one of the reasons I won't fix a slow leak. The factory applied the RTV by robot, the repair tech is going to do it by hand. Unless I'm the one doing the repair, I'll let it leak.
my 2021 Ascent has 35K or so miles (I forget the exact amount). I took it in to the dealer for an oil change, they found both the engine seal and oil pan gasket leaking. Car was out of commission for over a week while they repaired. The tech there told me the factory applied seals or garbage. Huge issue. My 2002 WRX had 345k miles on it, no oil leaks. 🤷🏽♂️
I halfway step out for a weekend and nearly miss this gem of a thread… 😳 🤣
Since AI can’t lie to us (take that with a grain or two of salt), here’s the final answer:
Since AI can’t lie to us (take that with a grain or two of salt), here’s the final answer:
It reads like every discussion of statistics vs crowd sourced data ever debated.I halfway step out for a weekend and nearly miss this gem of a thread… 😳 🤣
Since AI can’t lie to us (take that with a grain or two of salt), here’s the final answer:
Which leaves us with the only accurate descriptor being "known problems".
I personally own a 2022 ascent (36k) and own a dealership that specializes in Subarus. We’ve sold dozens of the ascents and have had virtually no engine oil leaks. I think we had one with a cam tower reseal. That being said if my wife wants to keep driving the ascent past powertrain warranty, I’m considering buying an extended warranty. I think they’re very good overall. Especially considering everyone seems to be be selling junk these days (including Toyota). And would buy another one if they keep making them.
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