[Titanrx8]

This question goes out to @Robert.Mauro and all you Ascent pros. Today, we took delivery of the Touring which included the window sticker line item Trailer Hitch with an MSRP of $499.00

If I understood earlier posts in this thread, I only have the receiver, lighting and brake receptacles behind the bumper's concealment panel. Should I also have received the drop hitch? I have examined the cargo area and only the tools, jack and tow hook are present. No drop hitch in cardboard box.

I have a 3" drop hitch from my last SUV but I'd like to have the 6" especially if I already paid for one.

Thank you.

 

[Titanrx8]

Hi, there is no drop hitch included.

Thank you. Subaru should probably change the description to hitch receiver or towing equipped.

First time Subaru owner. Plenty of questions to come, I'm sure.

 

[Titanrx8]

What's the maximum possible distance between the end of the stinger and the pin hole? I think I might have to cut down my existing 3" drop hitch and probably my bike rack too. Previous under bumper receiver was open in back so the hitch just overhung and I could use the second hole to get the ball right behind the bumper

 

[Titanrx8]

I find it interesting that there are so many threads and arguments on WDH vs no WDH.

Just looking at the attachment points for the OEM and aftermarket hitches, I wouldn't do it. Mine came with the OEM hitch but I looked at the installation instructions and it looks like the OEM hitch attaches about 6-8 inches into the rear sub-frame. The rear sub-frame is boxed sheet metal.

When I think about the WDH I used on an old full frame pickup, that hitch attached at least 2 feet if not 3 feet into the rear frame horns. Comparing the leverage of a 6" pivot point to a 2' or 3' pivot point you're looking at 4-6 times the force applied to the 6" attachment. That's the leverage applied in front of the hitch ball. There's more leverage applied behind the hitch ball by the torsion bars.

This is probably why the Subaru OEM hitch mount has such a short extension. By keeping the ball as far forward as possible, the hitch applies less leverage on the sub-frame.

 

[Titanrx8]

MY OEM hitch is sitting in the box waiting for me to install so I measured it. The OEM hitch rail is 14" long and ~12" of that slide inside the frame rails.

Thanks. That's better than my estimate from the installation drawings.

 

[Titanrx8]

With as many viewers as he has, incorrectly implying that the Ascent is not a suitable tow vehicle just because it can't use a weight distributing hitch could cost Subaru some sales. This is a shame, not just for Subaru, but for also those who may decide not to buy one based upon false information.

I never thought of a WDH as anything but a workaround. I always towed with pickups and would increase spring capacity as needed before ever going WDH.

I actually saw a pickup using a WDH flipped onto it's front bumper when the 2-car carrier it was towing was rear-ended by a runaway (no brakes) on a long downhill. I think that the runaway driver was looking for who to hit that would be the least horrible crash because he was weaving around other cars before tucking in behind the pickup-trailer. We stopped to lend assistance and everyone was ok but I'm pretty sure that the pickup wouldn't have done a headstand if it weren't for the leverage and springiness applied by the WDH. (I was off duty EMT so plenty of accident scene experience and that was one of the memorable and weirdest scenes.)

 

[Titanrx8]

A fifth wheel can put the tongue load directly over, or better yet, in front of the rear wheels, so it is distributed between the vehicles front and rear axles.

You mean like this?

 

[Titanrx8]

Side loads applied that high up would be interesting.

You can see when the VW turns, even at these low maneuvering speeds that the inside front wheel is lifting. Side loads indeed.

 

[Titanrx8]

Looking at Motor Trend specs, the Ascent is biased 54% to the front. Actually, not so bad for a vehicle that hangs the engine in front of the front axle. Unweighting the front axle by a few hundred pounds shouldn't be a major issue. Might even bring things closer to the ideal 50-50.

 

[Titanrx8]

Yep, and the axle ratings (GAWR) show it's designed exactly to do that. That front weight bias turns into a rear weight bias when towing or heavily loading cargo. You'll note that the rear axle is rated to carry 275 more pounds than the front.

View attachment 4165

And the axles are rated for 5% more GVWR than the plackard GVWR just to keep everything safe.

 

[Titanrx8]

No, Both sides are normally wired together. If the trailer starts to sway tapping the trailer brakes on the controller brings it back in line. Tapping the car brakes makes it worse.

Exactly how I was taught to handle the ancient International Harvester cab and 9-car carrier I drove way back in my college days. The trip to the auction was usually dead-head or nearly empty. In order to get the sway under control I manually applied the trailer brakes to pull it back in line with the cab.

 

[Titanrx8]

Ugh. It’s articles like this that confuse people:

Don’t Tow Your Camper Trailer Without This

An equalizer hitch will give you a smoother ride, protect your trailer, and stop your car from sagging.

www.doityourselfrv.com

don’t drink their kool aid!

The first picture from the article claims that WDH could have prevented the crash.

First, that's quite an assumption.
Second, years back, as an EMT, I was first on scene (I actually observed the accident happening), a Pickup towing a car carrier made a panic stop on the downhill slope of a major bridge. The pickup was flipped onto it's front bumper as the WDH helped raise the rear of the truck off the ground. Maybe the WDH was adjusted wrong, maybe the trailer and tow vehicle weren't level but one things for sure, the tow truck couldn't get the pickup back on the ground until the hitch bars were disconnected.

 

[Titanrx8]

Curses. Thanks! I may invest in a tongue weight scale to make sure I'm within limits.

Actually, this looks like it may be a good investment for me. Thoughts?

https://www.etrailer.com/Tools/Curt/C51701.html

Claimed accuracy is +-5%. You can get more accurate, cheaper and reliable weight with the bathroom scale method. It's explained on this site and YouTube.

I understand the physics and calculation the better weigh is doing but would have more confidence using it with a vehicle with a much higher tongue weight capability. There's not a lot of headroom with Ascent's 500# maximum. Be safe.

Others are towing the same trailer with the Ascent.

 

[Titanrx8]

The weight of the Mustang sure is over the axles with less tongue weight, my experience towing has been bad when doing this, are you trying to lesser the tongue weight on the Ascent? Does it tow this set up well or are you white knuckling it the whole time??? I’m trying to decide to trade my Ascent in for a truck because it does not pull my 4200lbs camper to good. I’m testing tongue weight and sway control, even though I’m told not to use it. Another topic...CVT temps, what is your experience with your tranny?

Where did you get the 4200# number from? You need to weigh and balance your trailer when equipped and loaded as you will use it when traveling. You also need to weigh the tongue again as equipped and ready for travel.

An unloaded trailer that's 4200# should be a tongue weight of 420-500#. Once loaded, it will be overweight. Too little or too much will be a problem.

Trailer width and Length are also possible contributors to handling issues. 8' wide trailer presents more wind resistance than 7'. Others have reported that 22' long or longer trailers are too long for the Ascent's wheelbase.

What brand and model is the trailer? You might have bought too much trailer for the Ascent.

 

[Titanrx8]

Did you manually apply the trailer brakes using the trailer controller? Long before electronic brake controllers, when I drove a semi, I could manually apply the trailer brakes to quell fishtailing.

 

[Titanrx8]

Someone asked about sway bars in the forum.


Here's what E-Trailer and Progressive Manufacturing (the makers of FastWay and Equalizer WDH and sway bar systems) say:
View attachment 13544

tl/dr: NO, don't use anti-sway bars - they also rely on leverage that the unibody needs to be specifically designed for.

Don't believe salespeople who know nothing about the topic. Heck, some people even bought travel trailers that were too large based on trailer salespeople advice who couldn't do simple math, like 600>500 max tongue weight.

I've been wanting to diagram this for everyone but haven't had access to Autodesk since retiring. (7 years ago 🤣 probably don't remember how anyway)

As simply stated as possible think of the WDH like any simple lever, ie a seesaw. You can balance unequal weights by moving the fulcrum closer to the heavier weight. OR, you can apply an upward force on the heavier side (think of how your parent would lift your end of the seesaw so you could play with your big brother).

In a unit body car, the distance to the fulcrum is the distance from the rear subframe's front body mount to the trailer ball. In a full-frame vehicle, the distance to the fulcrum is the distance from the front axle to the trailer ball. Let's say that the WDH bars attach to the trailer frame 4' from the ball. All of those distances are fixed so you can only equalize with upward force.

Let's say that the Ascent rear subframe's front body mount is also 4' from the ball. The downward force on the body mount will be equal to the upward force applied by the WDH bars.

Let's say that the full frame vehicle front axle is 16' from the ball. For the same amount of upward force applied by the WDH bars, the front axle will have 1/4 of the downward force. As long as the front axle has the capacity, everything is fine.

The Ascent unibody is being forced downward with 4X as much force as the full frame vehicle in a location which isn't designed to withstand tensile force.

Of course the forces are dynamic and much more complicated but that's the simplest explanation without more complex calculations.

There are many other factors including as @Robert.Mauro has documented of deformed subframes and elongated hitch anchor points.

This is why the use of WDH is forbidden by Subaru.

 

[Titanrx8]

This is a long thread. I tried searching for this but could only search the whole site. I have a U-Haul installed hitch on my 2019 Ascent Touring. I am getting a travel trailer (Forest River NOBO 19.8) with a 3800lb. dry weight. The RV dealer wanted to add and we thought we wanted to add a WDH. Our tow hitch is not the factory one. Will I need a WDH or not with the Uhaul-installed hitch? Thank you.

Not only shouldn't you use a WDH, you should get rid of the aftermarket hitch and get the OEM. Time to read this long thread.

There should be a warning on those aftermarket hitches that they're only for accessories like bike racks.

Look for the posts from @Robert.Mauro with the photos of the differences in the mounting hardware, design and frame damage caused by non-oem hitches.

 

[Titanrx8]

Robert! Thank you so much for this forum! My husband and I have a 2019 Subie, and the RV guys (We've been to multiple dealers shopping around) really have been pushing the WDH on us. They were all aware that we had a Sabaru. We are such nubes, we said ok, but then stumbled upon this site and called them back today to cancel that (We pick up our NO-BO on Saturday.) Well, then the RV dealer asked if the "saddles" can be attached to the factory issued hitch and really acted like he had no clue how this would all work without a WDH, and asked us for pictures of how it would hook-up. 1) We have no clue what "saddles" even are. 2) We've been trying very hard to find a good close up pic of an Ascent OEM Hitch attached to a travel trailer, and can't find one. Can y'all help??
Thanks again for all this info! It's super helpful, as it seems like the industry RV guys haven't done a lot of current research for themselves on the Subaru and it's capacities.

Ask one of the RV dealers to show you a trailer set up for WDH if it's that interesting to you. BUT, don't let them add any components of ANY WDH set-up to your trailer and don't buy a "stinger" (ball mount) for a WDH. All that those parts will do is eat up some of your precious tongue weight capacity (and pad the salesman's commission check).

Don't expect the RV dealers to have read the owner's manual of every tow vehicle. Most of their customers have traditionally used pickup trucks and the crossover SUV as tow vehicle all differ on the subject of tongue weitght and WDH usage. The Ascent is in the NO WDH camp.

Please keep reading about proper balance of the trailer and maintaining your tongue weight and gross vehicle weight within required limits so that you stay safe and enjoy the new RV.

 

[Titanrx8]

BTW, do not buy a ball mount until you know what the actual drop/rise you need for your specific trailer. That has to be measured directly with the trailer sitting level so you can determine the correct ball height for that trailer

A tongue weight of 400 pounds will drop the rear of the Ascent about 2.5 inches. Take that into account too.