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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Am I starting to trust EyeSight too much?

While driving to work this morning there was a traffic jam ahead. I decided to stay on ACC since it could see the vehicle ahead of me and was slowing down accordingly. Well those vehicles ahead nearly came to an abrupt stop. They slowed quick enough that I was given the pre-collision braking warning and more braking was applied on top of ACC already applying the brakes. Though I did have my foot over the brake, the whole time I was more concerned about the vehicle behind me rear ending me than I was about hitting the car in front. I did put my foot on the brake toward the end but I don’t think I even applied as much force as it already had.

So I just thought I’d share. I’m standing by to be told it’s not designed to use in traffic and not to rely on it!
 

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Did you try changing for ACC to like ECO mode , you may like it better ... it effects acceleration and braking
I have mine set on Comfort, which I think is one step below Eco on the "mildness" scale and it doesn't seem to affect braking when approaching a stationary vehicle from what I can tell.

I've been really impressed with ACC so far. My observations to this point are that braking for stationary traffic (especially completely stopped traffic) is a bit more aggressive and abrupt than I'd care for. My last car, a Volvo, had basically Gen 1 of their ACC and while it would not come to a complete stop, the overall approach braking was gentler and smoother, with a longer slowdown window.

Changing following distance doesn't seem to affect it on the Subaru, either, or at least not enough for me to notice.

The only other thing I run into is vehicles pulling into right turn or exit lanes. They often slow entering the lanes but ACC seems to continue braking/slowing well after the vehicle ahead has left the lane, resulting in awkward slowdowns and braking.
 

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The only other thing I run into is vehicles pulling into right turn or exit lanes. They often slow entering the lanes but ACC seems to continue braking/slowing well after the vehicle ahead has left the lane, resulting in awkward slowdowns and braking.
The ACC on the Grand Cherokee I drove prior to my Ascent behaved the same way and that was a radar based system rather than camera based. While it's very annoying when this happens because it's so conservative, that's probably better than the opposite of ignoring motion on the right. I suspect that these ACC systems don't differentiate between parallel movement and perpendicular movement (and everywhere in-between). They just see that "something" is there with a concerning closure rate. I've typically over rode that on the Interstate by touching the accelerator manually when there is excessive slowing, but I have not yet tried that on the Ascent.
 

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Xy,

Well, I don't think of it as trust/don't trust. It's more applying what it does to situations. So yeah I guess I'm that guy who's telling you what you said about design.

Or not quite. Recently I'm using ACC sometimes in traffic too, but I am ready for what ACC does in traffic. Which is sense slowing cars and apply brakes, sometimes with anti-collision kicking in. Plus the case that others pointed out, where a car exiting my lane will be ACC'd throughout its exit and mostly into the exit lane, braking hard if I try to do a weave-past in my lane.

It just does all these things, I guess because they had to choose what it's optimized for (cruising and following without catching up, rather than these other cases). Knowing what it will do, if I don't want those reactions I will suspend ACC until I'm out of the scenario (easy to do: tap ACC button, then flip speed switch to reengage). But if I want the reactions I will leave it on and be ready for those reactions that I know so well by now.

One situation that I definitely suspend ACC: if there is someone close on my tail.

F.S.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
So I believe my ACC is on Eco and I don't think there is a noticable difference in braking, just accelerating. In traffic I do increase the following distance and that seems to make it brake slower.
I'm with @FirstSubie on the being ready to override it anytime. I tend to have my foot over the accelerator most often so that I can override the conservative braking and get back up to speed.
The stereo cameras do a great job determining when an object is in your lane or not. Just the other day it eased off the throttle on the highway as someone just ahead crept into my lane. It failed conservative which is great, so I just gave it a little more gas and moved over to the right while blaring my horn (upgraded).
So as everyone starts driving cars with these features, do you think people will become more confident in their car's ability and therefore even more distracted with smartphones, passengers, etc? I think it's an interesting transition time from fully manual cars to eventual fully self driving cars.
 

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I think that's the danger in the driver-assist features. With the way Subaru advertises the EyeSight technology, it can be easily misinterpreted as a feature that will take on a portion of the human's responsibilities.

I think the most appropriate way to look at the technology is to pretend that the EyeSight technology does not exist and we, a human, take full responsibility of our every actions.
 

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maybe its just me , but i think braking was sooner and slower in some mods compare to others later but more aggressive , max following distance helps for sure
 

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The ACC on the Grand Cherokee I drove prior to my Ascent behaved the same way and that was a radar based system rather than camera based. While it's very annoying when this happens because it's so conservative, that's probably better than the opposite of ignoring motion on the right. I suspect that these ACC systems don't differentiate between parallel movement and perpendicular movement (and everywhere in-between). They just see that "something" is there with a concerning closure rate. I've typically over rode that on the Interstate by touching the accelerator manually when there is excessive slowing, but I have not yet tried that on the Ascent.
I think all of these systems (Subaru's, or anybodies really) have quirks that mostly grow out of "fail safe" thinking of doing what will maximally avoid an accident vs. making assumptions which could prove unsafe.

In this particular case, I think if I watched films of the times where the Subaru response was most annoying to me personally, I'd probably better notice that the car in front moved laterally extremely slowly. It's probably less about ACC and more about the guy ahead drifting into the turn/merge lane too slowly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
It's probably less about ACC and more about the guy ahead drifting into the turn/merge lane too slowly.
I've also noticed some annoying habits in other drivers while I'm on ACC. For instance, when in traffic, someone ahead of me speeds up excessively just to hit their brakes again. This causes my ACC to follow them and then apply my brakes even more suddenly! I know all I have to do is just press the button and deactivate it, but thats not the point. Fix yourselves people! ? Dont get me started with slow lane changers!
 

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I've also noticed some annoying habits in other drivers while I'm on ACC. For instance, when in traffic, someone ahead of me speeds up excessively just to hit their brakes again. This causes my ACC to follow them and then apply my brakes even more suddenly! I know all I have to do is just press the button and deactivate it, but thats not the point. Fix yourselves people! ? Dont get me started with slow lane changers!
I'd almost be in favor of ACC being a default setting so people would go a consistent speed.

They just passed a new law here that makes driving in the left lane a fine offense if you don't move over. There's some controversy whether this just encourages people who think everyone should get out of their way so they can drive 85 or whether it only applies to "bad" drivers who are driving sub-speed limit or could move over but don't.

I figure if the slowpokes would just go a consistent speed, there'd be less debate about all of this.
 

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To me, when driving cross country it's the trucks that need ACC, when they pull out to pass the 3 or 4 trucks in front of them at .1 mph faster than the ones they are passing. Especially on a long up hill stretch, that really bugs me! I'm like c'mon did you really need to hold up traffic for 5 or more minutes!

I know they have a schedule but there must be a study somewhere that says it's more efficient to stay in the right lane and convoy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
@SeaRay310DA dont get your hopes up for that new law to change anything. They added that here a few years ago and it’s not enforced
 

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Am I starting to trust EyeSight too much?

While driving to work this morning there was a traffic jam ahead. I decided to stay on ACC since it could see the vehicle ahead of me and was slowing down accordingly. Well those vehicles ahead nearly came to an abrupt stop. They slowed quick enough that I was given the pre-collision braking warning and more braking was applied on top of ACC already applying the brakes. Though I did have my foot over the brake, the whole time I was more concerned about the vehicle behind me rear ending me than I was about hitting the car in front. I did put my foot on the brake toward the end but I don’t think I even applied as much force as it already had.

So I just thought I’d share. I’m standing by to be told it’s not designed to use in traffic and not to rely on it!
In all cases, if you can't see, neither can the Eyesight.
 

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Just wanted to a few words to the topic. I'm driving on ACC or CC like 95% of my time. Literally, as soon as I turn it ON, I turn it ON.

I was skeptical regarding the way EyeSight works even before I bought my Ascent this March. Salesman showed me a few videos to demonstrate how safe and effective it is. I just ignored them. The same way he ignored my arguments towards radar based systems being better than vision based.

There are several pages of EyeSight limitations in the manual, e.g. wipers, sun, rain, snow, etc. I spent 6 years driving Honda Accord with radar based system and was WAY better.

The major issue with EyeSight for me is is keeps tracking the vehicle in front of you even if when it turned. It is NOT on my way any more, but EyeSight still see it and keep (or even increases) braking. Where radar based system doesn't see obstacle in front of my vehicle and starts accelerating. Same behavior is applicable to pre-collision breaking when it tracks turning vehicle. When I try to bypass such vehicle driving on ACC simply turning steering wheel, it just applies emergency braking. And this is on 55-60 mph! I'm glad there was nobody behind me at that time.

So, I trust ACC only at low speeds, e.g. 25-45 mph. And only because this is default mode once you turn CC on. The fact that you need to turn CC every time yoг start engine is ridiculous and an example of poor usability. When it comes to freeways (especially long freeway trips), I always switch to Conventional CC and turn pre-collision braking OFF. Plus I don't want to depend on slowpokes vomiting at 10 mph below limit or below traffic speed in the left lane.
 

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I like having these systems in my cars, even though I am definitely a driving enthusiast. You are still responsible for what the car is doing, but I would much rather have a slightly over cautious safety-net than a nothing at all. I find the automatic cruise control coupled with lane keep in all of my cars makes commuting in heavy traffic much easier. I trust the systems to a certain extent, but that doesn't mean any of us as drivers can decide to not pay attention when we're behind the wheel.
 

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The major issue with EyeSight for me is is keeps tracking the vehicle in front of you even if when it turned. It is NOT on my way any more, but EyeSight still see it and keep (or even increases) braking. Where radar based system doesn't see obstacle in front of my vehicle and starts accelerating.
The radar based ACC in my previous vehicle behaved exactly the same way as the Ascent's Eyesight for vehicles pulling off to the right...it's nothing to do with the method (camera vs radar)...it's programming.
 

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@SeaRay310DA dont get your hopes up for that new law to change anything. They added that here a few years ago and it’s not enforced
I'm actually not a huge fan of it. A bigger problem than slowpokes in the left lane is aggressive speeding. This law is just fuel for the aggressive speeders who will now be even more aggressive now that "the law is on their side."
It's kind of astonishing the number of people who are like "You're making the roads less safe by not moving over so I can do 80 in a 55 zone. If you don't move over, I'm forced to tailgate you until you do or pass on the right."

I'd be fine with the law if they would double the fine for speeding more than 11 mph in the left lane.
 

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I'm actually not a huge fan of it. A bigger problem than slowpokes in the left lane is aggressive speeding. This law is just fuel for the aggressive speeders who will now be even more aggressive now that "the law is on their side."
It's kind of astonishing the number of people who are like "You're making the roads less safe by not moving over so I can do 80 in a 55 zone. If you don't move over, I'm forced to tailgate you until you do or pass on the right."

I'd be fine with the law if they would double the fine for speeding more than 11 mph in the left lane.
I doubt doubling the fine would help. Here in VA, traveling at a speed >20mph over the limit or > 80mph (whichever is lower), is considered a misdemeanor, for which the speeder can spend time in jail. Doesn't stop these d-bags from tailgating me and driving like idiots even if I were to already be going 10-15 mph over myself. I'm pretty stubborn. If I'm doing a bit over and passing folks on my right, I won't move to the right no matter how much someone tailgates me. Riding someone's bumper is not the proper way to indicate the desire to pass. Seems like nobody these days remembers that though.
 

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I doubt doubling the fine would help. Here in VA, traveling at a speed >20mph over the limit or > 80mph (whichever is lower), is considered a misdemeanor, for which the speeder can spend time in jail. Doesn't stop these d-bags from tailgating me and driving like idiots even if I were to already be going 10-15 mph over myself. I'm pretty stubborn. If I'm doing a bit over and passing folks on my right, I won't move to the right no matter how much someone tailgates me. Riding someone's bumper is not the proper way to indicate the desire to pass. Seems like nobody these days remembers that though.
I don't know much about driving in other places, but at least here the amount of aggressive driving seems to have gone way up. And not just speeding, either, but tailgating, dangerous passing of all types, and so on. There's more than a small minority of drivers who seem on the constant edge of road rage.

I grew up driving when 55 was the national speed limit, and I remember speed enforcement being a huge deal. I kind of don't want to go back to a ton of traffic stops and 58-in-a-55-zone enforcement. But it sure seems like they've kind of given up on speed enforcement here, except for random areas on interstates and some suburbs.

I'm not sure why. I don't know if its just budgets, or whether the increase in speed limits leads to data that says there is less actual speeding -- I have read that as a whole, people will drive the "natural" speed limit of roads if you make the actual speed limit realistic to road conditions, or whether the police have just decided that traffic stops just lead to bad outcomes (cell phone videos of police abuse, etc).
 
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