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Very very high in her case. Hers was right in the small window before they found a number were failing due to the harness.

So, swap in a new CVT and the harness destroys it.

But, at this point, they have that much figured out, as anyone who logs into STIS can verify.
quick question, what is STIS?
 

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I don't mind having to prove that there is something wrong. I do expect an open mind and some honesty. What I may perceive as a major problem, might just be a simple fix. So I can understand some of the song and dance that we all play. The adage the customer is always right has really spoiled us and has in some cases ruined the relationship of the vendor and the client. Take the lifetime warranty of LLBean shoes, we as consumers began to abuse their good nature return policies that they finally had to end it. So yes I believe I should have to show that something is not right.
 

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When I took my Ascent in the first time the transmission slipped I knew there was a problem. There were no codes thrown and when we went for the test drive the car worked perfectly. I have a good enough relationship with the dealer and he believed me that there was a problem even though he could not prove it or troubleshoot it. He sent me on my way and said when it happens again to call him. I saw absolutely no reason to be upset at this time. It never crossed my mind to think they should stop what they are doing and spend $11k replacing my trans when my dealer had no proof that there is an issue. It would be frankly irresponsible of them to have done any repairs at this time and I know it. It is not a matter of ME having to prove there is a problem; however, it is a matter of the dealer having to prove to Subaru that there is a problem to get paid for the repair. From their point of view they have a customer (me) who says there is an issue but they can’t replicate it or find stored codes. Yes I can completely understand their side of it. I may not like it but I understand. So I went on my merry way knowing it would get worse before it would get fixed. This is how any reasonable dealer has to handle intermittent problems.

Two days (Saturda) later squealing again. I call them and they said they would have a loaner ready for me on Monday and they would test drive it under various conditions and try to replicate the problem. Still very reasonable and rather good customer service.

Sunday after church the transmission went nuts and lit up the dashboard. I limped home and Subaru towed the car to the dealer. When it arrived on Monday again no issue but they had stored codes to work with now. They test drove it Tuesday and I know it repeated on the again because Starlink sent me an email telling me my car set multiple codes. They said they were replacing the transmission. They saw it happen and they had stored codes now. This was ample proof for Subaru to agree to pay for the repair.

It is not a matter of us having to prove there is a problem, it is a matter of the dealer needing sufficient proof when they go to Subaru for warranty approval. It is unreasonable to expect otherwise. It is also unreasonable to expect Subaru to just move forward on a repair without proof.
 

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You suggest you have to prove the problem. As an owner I think this is perfectly reasonable. In the first case, not all transmission problems require a complete replacement so the technician needs to determine the specific symptoms and go through a specific protocol to determine what steps need to be taken for the repair. It is not appropriate to expect any manufacturer to replace the entire transmission if the harness is the only defective part (one of many examples). The simple fact is that the tech needs to duplicate or near duplicate the symptom before they can do anything. It is not simply whether they believe you or not but rather an issue of dialing in what the problem is, otherwise an owner may as well come into the dealer and say "it is broken" and expect a new car as the solution.
The issue is that if the transmission is really acting foolish, and the customer hasn't driven out to the dealership simply because they enjoy having their vehicle ripped apart and taken away from them for a length of time, then more damage is occurring. Then when they finally say "oh it's the harness and you're good to go now", I'm left with a possibly damaged transmission. It should be replaced if it for any length of time was slipping and shifting poorly, period. I do understand that a technician can't fix something that isn't broke, but dealerships specialize in using the "it didn't happen while we had it line". Been there and went through that with a 2003 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel that wouldn't shift into overdrive. I had to get rid of the vehicle because I went through 3 iterations of, "it's not doing it now", routine. So I have little patience for dealership BS especially since I don't enjoy having my vehicle disassembled randomly. I too am a technician, of the radar electronics type, so I am well versed in troubleshooting intermittent faults and the fact it takes a keen technician to solve them. When a customer comes in and says their transmission is slipping and the tech takes it for a leisurely 5 mile cruise on flat road and says it's fine, it irritates me to no end. It's a roll of the dice that you get a good dealership with motivated technicians that give two craps about you as the customer.
 

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The issue is that if the transmission is really acting foolish, and the customer hasn't driven out to the dealership simply because they enjoy having their vehicle ripped apart and taken away from them for a length of time, then more damage is occurring. Then when they finally say "oh it's the harness and you're good to go now", I'm left with a possibly damaged transmission. It should be replaced if it for any length of time was slipping and shifting poorly, period. I do understand that a technician can't fix something that isn't broke, but dealerships specialize in using the "it didn't happen while we had it line". Been there and went through that with a 2003 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel that wouldn't shift into overdrive. I had to get rid of the vehicle because I went through 3 iterations of, "it's not doing it now", routine. So I have little patience for dealership BS especially since I don't enjoy having my vehicle disassembled randomly. I too am a technician, of the radar electronics type, so I am well versed in troubleshooting intermittent faults and the fact it takes a keen technician to solve them. When a customer comes in and says their transmission is slipping and the tech takes it for a leisurely 5 mile cruise on flat road and says it's fine, it irritates me to no end. It's a roll of the dice that you get a good dealership with motivated technicians that give two craps about you as the customer.
I very much disagree with your characterizations of technicians and dealerships. There obviously is a range of competancies as there are in any industry. It does not have to be a roll of the dice. I investigated my dealership choice before I left my vehicle for service. No guarantees for each visit but not a roll of dice either. "I'm left with a possibly damaged transmission" why would you think you are left with a damaged transmission? The tech is required to take specific steps in their diagnostics and based on the results they are to take certain action. If they do not follow this protocol they do not get paid by SOA. SOA establishes the protocol after gathering all the data from all repairs completed in the system. They are in the best position to know how to proceed and in fact it is in their best interest to do so. It is not them against owners. That would be pure suicide for them.
 

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I very much disagree with your characterizations of technicians and dealerships. There obviously is a range of competancies as there are in any industry. It does not have to be a roll of the dice. I investigated my dealership choice before I left my vehicle for service. No guarantees for each visit but not a roll of dice either. "I'm left with a possibly damaged transmission" why would you think you are left with a damaged transmission? The tech is required to take specific steps in their diagnostics and based on the results they are to take certain action. If they do not follow this protocol they do not get paid by SOA. SOA establishes the protocol after gathering all the data from all repairs completed in the system. They are in the best position to know how to proceed and in fact it is in their best interest to do so. It is not them against owners. That would be pure suicide for them.
I research as well so I put myself in the best position to have a good experience, unfortunately I have had plenty of poor experiences as well. Although I agree that SOA wouldn't want to upset customers by making too many bad decisions, I feel a transmission that is slipping isn't doing it any good. I wouldn't trust that it would hold up for the long haul. Let's not kid ourselves, SOA would love for it to make it past the warranty and then fail. If they can simply say, it was the harness and you're good to go, they may be rolling the dice that it makes it past the warranty and they are off the hook. Sorry but I don't trust dealerships very much, nor do I trust manufacturers very much. In saying that, I believe I have made one of the better decisions with Subaru, as by all accounts they seem to be a cut above. Soon I will find out as I am calling the shop tomorrow about my completely defective transmission. We will see what transpires. So in summary, you're right, it's not a complete roll of the dice for those of us that research, but it doesn't guarantee a good outcome or experience. I am proof of that with past experience, luckily not with Subaru. This will be Subaru's first attempt and hopefully it will all go smoothly.
 

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I research as well so I put myself in the best position to have a good experience, unfortunately I have had plenty of poor experiences as well. Although I agree that SOA wouldn't want to upset customers by making too many bad decisions, I feel a transmission that is slipping isn't doing it any good. I wouldn't trust that it would hold up for the long haul. Let's not kid ourselves, SOA would love for it to make it past the warranty and then fail. If they can simply say, it was the harness and you're good to go, they may be rolling the dice that it makes it past the warranty and they are off the hook. Sorry but I don't trust dealerships very much, nor do I trust manufacturers very much. In saying that, I believe I have made one of the better decisions with Subaru, as by all accounts they seem to be a cut above. Soon I will find out as I am calling the shop tomorrow about my completely defective transmission. We will see what transpires. So in summary, you're right, it's not a complete roll of the dice for those of us that research, but it doesn't guarantee a good outcome or experience. I am proof of that with past experience, luckily not with Subaru. This will be Subaru's first attempt and hopefully it will all go smoothly.
This forum has owners who have gone through this before. They had one and then another transmission related part replaced and now they are fine. I had a control valve replaced and have not needed the harness replaced. The resistance level was within the specs. My vehicle ha been fine ever since. Subaru will do what is necessary to get it right and there are many on this forum who are proof of that. My hope is you are one of this group ad well.
 

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This forum has owners who have gone through this before. They had one and then another transmission related part replaced and now they are fine. I had a control valve replaced and have not needed the harness replaced. The resistance level was within the specs. My vehicle ha been fine ever since. Subaru will do what is necessary to get it right and there are many on this forum who are proof of that. My hope is you are one of this group ad well.
Me too. I'm researching service departments in my area as I write this. Hopefully I get one of those smooth as butter 2020 transmissions that others have been talking about. Mine has never been like that, I would love for a smooth operating CVT. If anyone out there can recommend a dealership in the Northern Virginia area that they know does excellent work, it would be greatly appreciated. Especially if you had them replace your failed transmission.
 

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You suggest you have to prove the problem. As an owner I think this is perfectly reasonable. In the first case, not all transmission problems require a complete replacement so the technician needs to determine the specific symptoms and go through a specific protocol to determine what steps need to be taken for the repair. It is not appropriate to expect any manufacturer to replace the entire transmission if the harness is the only defective part (one of many examples). The simple fact is that the tech needs to duplicate or near duplicate the symptom before they can do anything. It is not simply whether they believe you or not but rather an issue of dialing in what the problem is, otherwise an owner may as well come into the dealer and say "it is broken" and expect a new car as the solution.
first, one facet of this is the general attitude of dlr service writers. your one comment seems to be as an apologist for service writers who know little, to nothing about the mechanical aspects of how cars work anymore. they are hired first and foremost as service salesmen; but in reality, they are the critical interface between the customer and the technician; with the service mgr breathing down their neck to sell and up-sell things that are not even related to the original cause of the visit to the shop. second, and mainly, many of the folks who have suffered with this trans issue (which what this is mainly pertaining to); have related experiences that their service dept has made them feel like they are trying to convince them they saw a ufo instead of listening to their problem, and understanding what is being described to them so it can be diagnosed properly. i don't expect to get a new anything just because i say so when i come in; but i do expect to be respected and listened to thoroughly, completely and accurately so the technician in the back can do their job properly and effciently.
The issue is that if the transmission is really acting foolish, and the customer hasn't driven out to the dealership simply because they enjoy having their vehicle ripped apart and taken away from them for a length of time, then more damage is occurring. Then when they finally say "oh it's the harness and you're good to go now", I'm left with a possibly damaged transmission. It should be replaced if it for any length of time was slipping and shifting poorly, period. I do understand that a technician can't fix something that isn't broke, but dealerships specialize in using the "it didn't happen while we had it line". Been there and went through that with a 2003 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel that wouldn't shift into overdrive. I had to get rid of the vehicle because I went through 3 iterations of, "it's not doing it now", routine. So I have little patience for dealership BS especially since I don't enjoy having my vehicle disassembled randomly. I too am a technician, of the radar electronics type, so I am well versed in troubleshooting intermittent faults and the fact it takes a keen technician to solve them. When a customer comes in and says their transmission is slipping and the tech takes it for a leisurely 5 mile cruise on flat road and says it's fine, it irritates me to no end. It's a roll of the dice that you get a good dealership with motivated technicians that give two craps about you as the customer.
The issue is that if the transmission is really acting foolish, and the customer hasn't driven out to the dealership simply because they enjoy having their vehicle ripped apart and taken away from them for a length of time, then more damage is occurring. Then when they finally say "oh it's the harness and you're good to go now", I'm left with a possibly damaged transmission. It should be replaced if it for any length of time was slipping and shifting poorly, period. I do understand that a technician can't fix something that isn't broke, but dealerships specialize in using the "it didn't happen while we had it line". Been there and went through that with a 2003 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel that wouldn't shift into overdrive. I had to get rid of the vehicle because I went through 3 iterations of, "it's not doing it now", routine. So I have little patience for dealership BS especially since I don't enjoy having my vehicle disassembled randomly. I too am a technician, of the radar electronics type, so I am well versed in troubleshooting intermittent faults and the fact it takes a keen technician to solve them. When a customer comes in and says their transmission is slipping and the tech takes it for a leisurely 5 mile cruise on flat road and says it's fine, it irritates me to no end. It's a roll of the dice that you get a good dealership with motivated technicians that give two craps about you as the customer.
most of these responses seem to be from folks who have a cozy "kumbaya", let's sing around the camp fire- type relationship with their dealer; rainbows and unicorns. if you have such a dealer in your town, bully for you to be able to play softball with your dealer general manager; you're in the microscopic minority. in southern kalifornia here, it is dog eat dog. i know through service writers, technicians, and back office warranty paper-pushers; dealers hate warranty work, because they know they are only going to be reimbursed the fixed factory amount for labor; so they perform the magic on your repair that is called "flat rating". this means if they only have to jerk out half the parts to get to the needed repair zone to rush the repair to the finish line under the flat rate time limit -so it better be quick. looking at a car that has been "flat rated"; you will find missing clips, fastensers, wire ties, etc.; the list is end less. oh, and none of those parts are replaced where they came from; unless it means the engine or something will fall out. all to achieve shoving your car out the other end to be able to say "see, we fixed it" the only problem is the box of left over parts that did not go back into your car that were originally 100% there when the car was built; that you proudly paid msrp for in the showroom, with the sales staff smiling as you drove away. i have many friends at dealerships everywhere who have pulled back this curtain of secrecy, and actually have shown me the box of the cast-off parts from such "flat-rated" projects. so you can call me any name you wish for being a truthful/realist, because your sticks and stones won't hurt me because i dare to speak the truth; but all i know now is that what i thought was supposed to be a happy experience of being a proud owner of a supposed new "quailty" product; has had all the shine removed from it. whenever it is decided to return my not-so-new car to me; i will know that it is now damaged goods that i will be wondering about "what will be the next problem with it". and what additional parts will wind up in the giant spare parts box. and i still get to make the payments too!
 
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first, one facet of this is the general attitude of dlr service writers. your one comment seems to be as an apologist for service writers who know little, to nothing about the mechanical aspects of how cars work anymore. they are hired first and foremost as service salesmen; but in reality, they are the critical interface between the customer and the technician; with the service mgr breathing down their neck to sell and up-sell things that are not even related to the original cause of the visit to the shop. second, and mainly, many of the folks who have suffered with this trans issue (which what this is mainly pertaining to); have related experiences that their service dept has made them feel like they are trying to convince them they saw a ufo instead of listening to their problem, and understanding what is being described to them so it can be diagnosed properly. i don't expect to get a new anything just because i say so when i come in; but i do expect to be respected and listened to thoroughly, completely and accurately so the technician in the back can do their job properly and effciently.



most of these responses seem to be from folks who have a cozy "kumbaya", let's sing around the camp fire- type relationship with their dealer; rainbows and unicorns. if you have such a dealer in your town, bully for you to be able to play softball with your dealer general manager; you're in the microscopic minority. in southern kalifornia here, it is dog eat dog. i know through service writers, technicians, and back office warranty paper-pushers; dealers hate warranty work, because they know they are only going to be reimbursed the fixed factory amount for labor; so they perform the magic on your repair that is called "flat rating". this means if they only have to jerk out half the parts to get to the needed repair zone to rush the repair to the finish line under the flat rate time limit -so it better be quick. looking at a car that has been "flat rated"; you will find missing clips, fastensers, wire ties, etc.; the list is end less. oh, and none of those parts are replaced where they came from; unless it means the engine or something will fall out. all to achieve shoving your car out the other end to be able to say "see, we fixed it" the only problem is the box of left over parts that did not go back into your car that were originally 100% there when the car was built; that you proudly paid msrp for in the showroom, with the sales staff smiling as you drove away. i have many friends at dealerships everywhere who have pulled back this curtain of secrecy, and actually have shown me the box of the cast-off parts from such "flat-rated" projects. so you can call me any name you wish for being a truthful/realist, because your sticks and stones won't hurt me because i dare to speak the truth; but all i know now is that what i thought was supposed to be a happy experience of being a proud owner of a supposed new "quailty" product; has had all the shine removed from it. whenever it is decided to return my not-so-new car to me; i will know that it is now damaged goods that i will be wondering about "what will be the next problem with it". and what additional parts will wind up in the giant spare parts box. and i still get to make the payments too!
I am so sorry to learn that you have had these horrible expereinces with dealers. In one local Subaru dealer that I just started with (the Ascent is my first Subaru) I started with one service advisor who did not do right by me for the first repair. I changed service advisors during that same interaction and have had great service since. The new advisor upgraded my loaner (as soon as one came in) knowing I wanted an Ascent. He provided me with addtional technical detail regarding my repair upon my request. He always has communicated promptly and accurately with me. This advisor makes certain that he captures my concerns accurately on the paperwork that gets imortalized and to the technician. By the way, I did not purchase my Ascent through this dealer.

If this level of service ever goes bad, upper management (and if necessary SOA) will hear about it and again if necessary I will change dealers, but until then I am happy to have them servicing my vehicle.
 

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So that's funny. You question my numbers, then throw out a B.S. statistic to counter it? My local Ford dealer has 60 F-150s on the lot, yet it is the best selling truck in the world.

I do know those numbers are what is listed on the forum. What I don't know is how that correlates to the other 50k some owners. But they should be fairly representative, since the sample size is pretty large.
2020 Quarter 3 Hyundai Palisade 24,128 Kia Telluride 21,239 Subaru Ascent 18,438
 

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I find the web site less than intuitive, but hopefully I get this right.

Source: 2019 US Vehicle Sales Figures By Model

In 2019:

Ascent: 81508
Telluride: 58932
Palisade: 28736

So combined, in 2019 the Ascent sold as many as the other 2 combined (almost).

As small as Subaru is, compared to the other brands, I would hope the other brands would sell more.

On the flip side, at least with the above models in 2019, the Ascent faired really well.
 

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2020 will be a slower year for Subaru. They shut down the plant for months, and are not running at full capacity, for the safety of their employees.
 

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I find the web site less than intuitive, but hopefully I get this right.

Source: 2019 US Vehicle Sales Figures By Model

In 2019:

Ascent: 81508
Telluride: 58932
Palisade: 28736

So combined, in 2019 the Ascent sold as many as the other 2 combined (almost).

As small as Subaru is, compared to the other brands, I would hope the other brands would sell more.

On the flip side, at least with the above models in 2019, the Ascent faired really well.
The KIA and Hyundai models were not even out for an entire year in 2019. Let's stick with 2020. Kia and Hyundai also shut down their plants or eliminated shifts. I am not picking on the Ascent, just illustrating that the Korean twins are gaining significant market share, no matter what Subaru apologists think.
 

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The Palisade is built in South Korea. They did not have the months long shutdowns we did. The Telluride is built in Georgia. Kia had similar shutdowns to Subaru, but there's one big difference - Subaru was also in the process of a big plant expansion, and, I'd posit, were affected worse by the shutdown. Both of them were affected, to one extent or another, by supplier shutdowns... for instance, Hyundai/Kia use a lot of parts from China, and were not able to get them on schedule. Subaru of America's Subaru of Indiana Automotive division relies on Subaru Corp in Japan for our TR690 CVTs, and a few other parts - and were also affected by slowdowns on those parts deliveries.

Regardless, how much of that affects their respective production numbers, I don't know - nor do I particularly care. Subaru has never needed to be the biggest to continue to thrive in the market. As a matter of fact, when GM tried pushing them in that and other odd directions, they suffered for it.

Anyway, I don't buy a car because they're the market segment's sales leader - and I hope no one else does. The Ascent beats the Telluride/Palisade in almost every major metric we in this forum discuss, including better AWD, safer vehicle, more proactive response to issues, lower quantity of vehicles affected by severe issues manifesting (which could be due to them being more proactive). I follow the numbers to see where Subaru fits within their general sales segment. Sales are climbing back up to where they should be, and will continue to increase, probably especially with the changes coming next for the Ascent. Sales for other Subaru models should also increase with the numerous announcements that will be coming out in the next few months to years.
 

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I just want to add to that... don't get me wrong... I am interested in the sales numbers, but, I did not expect Subaru to maintain the lead. What I expect is for them to continue to grow in the segment. I've repeatedly mentioned that the Palisade/Telluride is smoke and mirrors in various categories - such as off road prowess (perception and ads aside) - and then I went out there to make numerous off roading videos that ended up showing the Ascent obliterating the Palisade/Telluride capabilities. As I said many times, it was the expected result, but proving it in my videos was simply an unintentional side effect of my love for the outdoors (and not the reason for the videos).

People buy hype, so, I never expected Subaru to keep winning the segment. It's why the Explorer sells so well, even though people claim safety is a major concern (the Explo is near bottom of the pack, as it always is) (EDIT SEE BOTTOM).

This is "hype" (for lack of a better word, in comparison to what the Ascent can do) - (12m17s):

This is AWD prowess:
7m27s:

6m45s, 7m45s, 0m45s:

Heck, even wedged onto the ground, belly touching, the Ascent manages to find its way without much effort.

So, I will continue to watch the numbers, to watch for Subaru growing their own numbers. How their sales compare to others is only of anecdotal interest to me. And I await the day when someone takes a Palisade or Telluride, and does with it the things I do with my Ascent - it won't happen, of course. ;)


EDIT: Ford FINALLY made changes to the Explorer, and Explos built after May 2020 have jumped up to third place on IIHS rankings, even earning a Top Safety Pick+ rating. The original 2020 Explorer did not make the cut. Nor did the 2019 platform change. They were in at #18 of 25. Glad to see they went the extra mile to change things, when their 2019 platform revision didn't work out as expected.



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