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I too am interested in the Winnebago Micro Mini series with a preference for the 2108 DS model. In reading through the thread of responses on Subaru Ascent Actual Towing Examples, several people are towing with dry weights in the mid 4000lbs which contradicts the notion of keeping the total weight at a safe margin below 5000 spec for the Ascent Premium/Touring. The 2108 DS has a dry weight spec of 4140 lbs and a hitch rate of 410lbs. Based on other people's experience, is it possible to keep the total weight below 5,000? The 2106FBS is 300lbs lighter on the dry weight and 60lbs lighter on the hitch rate but my preference is the 2108 model.
 

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Not directly applicable but I noticed that the 1700BH has a dry 3280 and a GVWR of only 3700 lb (limited by its single axle). That means they expect you to keep additional weight to 420 or fewer lbs. With the 2108DS empty weight of 4140 and the 5000lb Ascent limit, you have a margin of 860 lb.
 

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I too am interested in the Winnebago Micro Mini series with a preference for the 2108 DS model. In reading through the thread of responses on Subaru Ascent Actual Towing Examples, several people are towing with dry weights in the mid 4000lbs which contradicts the notion of keeping the total weight at a safe margin below 5000 spec for the Ascent Premium/Touring. The 2108 DS has a dry weight spec of 4140 lbs and a hitch rate of 410lbs. Based on other people's experience, is it possible to keep the total weight below 5,000? The 2106FBS is 300lbs lighter on the dry weight and 60lbs lighter on the hitch rate but my preference is the 2108 model.
Yes, it's possible. See Ken Myers' towing website, he meticulously lists all of his cargo weights. This should give you a good idea of typical cargo weights.
 

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The direct link to those weights is here -

[/QU
Ken, your RV Essentials, Actual Weights is amazing!! Thank you for sharing all of your hard work and research. One question I have regarding not exceeding the Ascents 5000, does that only include the total weight of the trailer and the hitch weight or also the weight of passengers, luggage in the car/pick-up, etc?
 

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You have to keep the towing weight below 5,000, the tongue weight below 500 AND also keep the Ascent's total weight below 6,000 (fixed from mistake of 5,000).

The tongue weight comes off the cargo allowance in the Ascent, so keep that in mind.
 

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if anyone has real-life practical experiences they want to share, looking for even more tips/tricks. An example, have you ever had to engage the brake controller in an emergency sway? How'd it go?
When I was towing a 2,300lb pop up with my 2011 Subaru Outback, I'd often use the brake lever to get the trailer back in line while going down the mountains north of Phoenix. The camper would get a bit of sway going and engaging the lever would immediately draw it back in line.

With my Ascent and the built in anti-sway logic , after 4,200 miles of towing, I only thought about even using it once. That was when going downhill and someone cut me off and braked hard. I had to get the car and trailer down from 60mph to below 45mph fast. The 3,500lb pop up wiggled a bit, but then fell back into line without me using the lever!

Very impressed with the Ascent.

Obviously my GMC 2500 was the ultimate tow machine, where a 9,500lb fifth wheel felt like nothing back there. But the Ascent tows so well and is so nice to drive the rest of the time too. And gets much better gas mileage!
 
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You have to keep the towing weight below 5,000, the tongue weight below 500 AND also keep the Ascent's total weight below 5,000.

The tongue weight comes off the cargo allowance in the Ascent, so keep that in mind.
Based on your weight calculations for outfitting your camper, keeping the towing weight below 5000 should not be a problem considering that the Micro Minnie dry weight at 3900lbs (correction from my earlier post where I mentioned the dry weight spec being 4140). If I understand your hitch weight comment correctly, I would need to add that weight (410 lb dry hitch weight) to the weight of the Ascent (curb weight of 4603) plus its cargo and passenger weight and not exceed 5000 for the Ascent total weight. The sum of these weights would definitely exceed 5000lbs for the weight of the Ascent. Am I missing something?
 

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Based on your weight calculations for outfitting your camper, keeping the towing weight below 5000 should not be a problem considering that the Micro Minnie dry weight at 3900lbs (correction from my earlier post where I mentioned the dry weight spec being 4140). If I understand your hitch weight comment correctly, I would need to add that weight (410 lb dry hitch weight) to the weight of the Ascent (curb weight of 4603) plus its cargo and passenger weight and not exceed 5000 for the Ascent total weight. The sum of these weights would definitely exceed 5000lbs for the weight of the Ascent. Am I missing something?
Don't forget that the hitch weight also includes the weight of the ball and ball mount, chains and a portion of any weight added to the trailer in front of the axle reduced by a portion of any weight added behind the trailer axle.

The weight of the Ascent has to be kept below the axle ratings on you door pillar label. If you look overweight and highway patrol weighs your rig you can be ticketed for exceeding the label ratings.
 

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See below. I just bought the 2106FBS. Pick it up next week. Will report more here when I've got some news to share.
I look forward to hearing about your experience, particularly keeping the total weight within spec, since I am looking at the 2020 Micro Mini 2108DS that weighs slightly more.
 

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Don't forget that the hitch weight also includes the weight of the ball and ball mount, chains and a portion of any weight added to the trailer in front of the axle reduced by a portion of any weight added behind the trailer axle.

The weight of the Ascent has to be kept below the axle ratings on you door pillar label. If you look overweight and highway patrol weighs your rig you can be ticketed for exceeding the label ratings.
Sorry... GVWR is 6,000, not 5000, which makes a lot more sense!

I'll fix my earlier post.
 

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Discussion Starter #52
@kann your photos show the rear view camera mounted below the rear view mirror. Did Eyesight function well? Isn't this within the Eyesight reserved part of the windshield.

BTW, I've seen several micro Minnies on the road and they've all been bright yellow! Maybe that's a rental fleet?
It's out of the Eyesight area and works perfectly below the rear mirror. No problem and using it about 5000miles so far.
 

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It's out of the Eyesight area and works perfectly below the rear mirror. No problem and using it about 5000miles so far.
According to the Eyesight manual it's right in the middle of the prohibited area. That's why I asked.
4867
 

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IMO, the Eyesight spec is very conservative and safe. I believe the intent is to prevent anything from getting into the view of either camera and prevent reflections of objects on the dash into the cameras by the windshield. I have a small dash cam mounted to the windshield in the center just below the rear view mirror mount (upper middle of D in the diagram) and AFAIK it hasn't caused any issues. Quite a few others have done similar. Use your own judgement and proceed at your own risk.
 

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IMO, the Eyesight spec is very conservative and safe. I believe the intent is to prevent anything from getting into the view of either camera and prevent reflections of objects on the dash into the cameras by the windshield. I have a small dash cam mounted to the windshield in the center just below the rear view mirror mount (upper middle of D in the diagram) and AFAIK it hasn't caused any issues. Quite a few others have done similar. Use your own judgement and proceed at your own risk.
I agree, my experience has been the same. I have a radar detector and dashcam mounted in the general areas not recommended by EyeSight. I've seen no change in EyeSight's performance which remains excellent. As long as the items are dark and non-reflective on the windshield there does not seem to be any issues. Your results may vary but you can take this experience into account.
 

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IMO, the Eyesight spec is very conservative and safe. I believe the intent is to prevent anything from getting into the view of either camera and prevent reflections of objects on the dash into the cameras by the windshield. I have a small dash cam mounted to the windshield in the center just below the rear view mirror mount (upper middle of D in the diagram) and AFAIK it hasn't caused any issues. Quite a few others have done similar. Use your own judgement and proceed at your own risk.
When I reviewed the book upon purchase, I was like, where can I mount anything? All my other cars have dash cam and toll transponders mounted behind the mirror, totally out of the driver's line of sight, right in prime "D" real estate. I'm going to mount the dash cam and transponder in the "A" zone behind the passenger's sun visor.

I agree that the guidance is super conservative because the lawyers probably wrote the guidance.
 

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If mounting a dashcam behind the passenger side visor, check the area of the windshield swept by the wipers. IIRC, they don't get the top right side of the windshield so the dashcam will be looking through wet/snowy/dirty glass. Driver's side is better, but then it's in your peripheral view. That's among the reasons I put it where I did. Transponder can go pretty much anywhere not largely blocked by metal. I keep the one on my moto in the storage compartment in the plastic tail section. It's always worked.
 

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You have to keep the towing weight below 5,000, the tongue weight below 500 AND also keep the Ascent's total weight below 6,000 (fixed from mistake of 5,000).

The tongue weight comes off the cargo allowance in the Ascent, so keep that in mind.
Kevin, I appreciate your input that a trailer with a dry weight of 3900 and a tongue weight of 410 should be ok to tow with an Ascent Touring. As I ask Subaru and RV dealers, they advise to keep the gross weight of around 1000 lbs below the allowance which in the case of the Ascent would be a trailer with a gross weight of 4,000. Is this overly conservative?
 

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Kevin, I appreciate your input that a trailer with a dry weight of 3900 and a tongue weight of 410 should be ok to tow with an Ascent Touring. As I ask Subaru and RV dealers, they advise to keep the gross weight of around 1000 lbs below the allowance which in the case of the Ascent would be a trailer with a gross weight of 4,000. Is this overly conservative?
I personally suggest 85%, others suggest 80%, various towing forums suggest 80-85%. That's regardless of tow vehicle, simply to maintain the life of the tow vehicle by having a safety margin between trailer weight and tow vehicle's specified limits. 4,000 pounds GVR fits the "80% 'rule'" many advise by (again, regardless of tow vehicle).
 

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Kevin, I appreciate your input that a trailer with a dry weight of 3900 and a tongue weight of 410 should be ok to tow with an Ascent Touring. As I ask Subaru and RV dealers, they advise to keep the gross weight of around 1000 lbs below the allowance which in the case of the Ascent would be a trailer with a gross weight of 4,000. Is this overly conservative?
So my take on it is this. The vehicle is rated for 5,000lbs and 500lbs tongue. It'll take it. There's safety margin built into that. The closer you get to those limits the more careful you have to be with everything. So if you just want to throw it and go, then I'd recommend sticking in the below 80% range or even lower.

I tow my Mustang all the time and it's 4,500lbs total. It's easy to pull, never struggles and never feels unstable. The nice thing with it is I can balance my tongue weight easily every time by just moving the car forward/back until it's balanced right. It's not as hard as a travel trailer where you have to shuffle around cargo and keep it in place so your load doesn't shift while you travel.

My pop up camper in contrast is a decently heavy one at 3,500lbs, but requires less finicky packing as it's got a much lower tongue weight and overall weight. I just need to make sure the tongue isn't light to induce trailer sway and I'm good to go. Since I put everything back in the same places every time, that's easy!

If I was towing a larger TT, then I'd need to be more careful about where I put stuff and vigilant about how much I put in there. Also the larger frontal area and side area makes it more susceptible to wind and gusts. Personally I wouldn't be afraid to have a TT loaded to 450+ lbs and 4,500ish weight, but then again I know how to load it and how to look for bad signs.

People with less experience or a less thorough/careful packing strategy could easily get themselves into trouble. So take an honest look at yourself and your personality. Are you more like Ken who weighed EVERYTHING he put into his camper, made charts, analyzed and adjusted till it was "just right"? Or do you want to just throw some supplies in on a whim and head out? Then adjust your trailer max weight accordingly.

I'm up to 4,400 miles towing, with most of it either the Mustang or the pop-up. I love how my Ascent handles it. I came from a GMC 2500 towing a 31ft fifth wheel. That is a beast of a towing machine too. I haven't had any complaints with my Ascent and have never lamented selling my truck.
 
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