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The OEM Falken and the Snow

11K views 82 replies 11 participants last post by  Jim_in_PA 
#1 ·
First driving impressions on snow and ice yesterday. The tires definitely aren't cut out for icy conditions.. At all. We got to experience two conditions on 11/21. A little snow (30F) which was icy below and proved to be a little greasy heading into where we watch football. Steering and stopping were greatly reduced. The ABS kicked in almost immediately. On the way home, the temp had dropped and a few inches had fallen. The tires did better in snow. I'll get to play more when we get some real snow. It's hard to assess the capabilities of an AWD system when the tires are the weak link. Such was also the case with our Ridgelines, although the stock tire on them appears to have been a little better in similar conditions.

This morning here is 17F. Snow has fallen overnight and our subdivision roads are covered. Chill factor is between zero and 10F. Once winter sets in here, neighborhood roads seldom see pavement again until spring. The weather stats show about 14 inches have fallen here this year. In 2014, we had 46" by now. You just never know UP here :)
 
#2 ·
This comes as no surprise...the material compounds used for run of the mill "all season" tires are not really up to very low temperatures and slippery conditions. If you live in an area that "features" a lot of low temps, then you'll want to consider winter capable tires, either actual winter tires for that season or one of the new "All Weather" tires that do perform reasonably well at lower temps.
 
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#3 ·
I agree completely. My point all along was that maybe they could have done a little better with the OEM tire. The Michelin tire and the Firestone tire on the RLs were a step up the ladder

My opinion is greatly influenced by over 50 years of driving here (over 1.5 million miles to date...hoping for a lot more :)) and switching over to dedicated snow tires in 1994. That was a light bulb moment for me. Enough so that in our 09 RL, I got rid of the Michelin LTX tires on 12/10/12 at 33K miles for winter use and put a set of Blizzaks on. I never thought they were great in the winters here, but I did get two winters out of them. I think there was 6 or 7/32nds when I put them on the shelf for winter use. Our FWD Lacrosse with two year old Blizzaks could run circles around the AWD Honda truck for steering and stopping. It was actually dangerous to have two such unmatched vehicles that we both drove.

I'm a bit between a rock and a hard place with these tires as we leave here on 1/2 until ususally mid May. I'll probably just be very careful until then and 'experiment' within the parameters of the tire. Unfortunately, a friend sold his 4K mile Blizzak tire / wheel package two weeks before I knew I was getting the Ascent. They went for $700. I would of gladly taken them off his hands. I thought he got rid of the package last spring when he traded his Ascent for a G80 AWD ...which he also bought a winter package for. He stays here all winter.

I will give the all weather tires a good look next year if I'm not happy with the Falkens. It is expensive to have two sets. I've done it both ways: tire/wheel package and flop them out myself....or just the tires and pay to have it done twice a year.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Agreed - the factory Falkens are quite...er....sporting 😅 , when there's ice on the roadway.....

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For those who see ice routinely, I favor either "Studless Ice and Snow" or outright studded winters, based on typical winter temperatures and legality (both equally important).

If it's cold enough in that particular locale, typically, studded tires will be allowed: however, in some areas (this is not aimed at @Steve70 , but rather, readers who are not as well-versed in winter weather driving), the window of time during which studded tires are allowed can be significantly shorter than the window of potential wintry weather. Typically, no enforcement action is taken -certainly not during storms- but it can be a worry particularly for those whose yearly municipal/state vehicle inspections fall within those periods.

Even with today's tire technology, at temperatures closer to the freezing point, tests still show studded tires to offer significantly more traction on icy surfaces. Where temperatures are higher (closer to freezing), premium modern studded tires consistently perform better, while modern premium "Studless Ice & Snow" tires start to reverse that trend at approx. 9 deg. F. (-13 deg. C.). By the time roadway temperatures reach 0 deg. F. (-18 deg C.), the ice surface has become so cold that studs can no longer effectively "chip in" to enhance traction, and modern "Studless Ice & Snow" tires start to really shine. Russian enthusiasts were among the first to report this data well over a decade ago ( https://www.zr.ru/content/articles/16906-test_shipy_i_lipuchki_na_ldu_kazus_gradusa/ ), and soon after, European and Scandinavian tests actually stopped cross-comparing these two winter tire sub-genres, noting clear advantages of either as based on such conditions. Instead, now, we see a clear division in those winter tire tests, completely separating the testing of studded winters with "Studless Ice and Snows." [ A more comprehensive discussion in this past thread: Studded snow tires or Blizzaks? ]

Users of modern premium "Studless Ice & Snow" tires shouldn't feel somehow ashamed that their tires don't carry metal spikes - and similarly, modern premium studded winter tire users should also not feel ashamed that their tires do. :) It's all about seeking that edge in performance based on actual conditions.

One final thing to note is that modern "Studless Ice & Snow" tires do rely on typically more wear-prone, "softer" compounds - either as a specialized top-layer of a dual-layer compounding strategy or through-and-through. This means not only generalized lower treadlife, but also a not insignificant decrease in performance (read: reduction of the safety envelope) in clear-dry and clear-wet conditions (where, in spite of cold temperatures -even below-freezing ambient temperatures - there is no frozen precipitation on the roadway) as compared to all other tires (of similar quality), be they "All Seasons," "All Weather," "Performance Winter," or studdable winter tires. There's compromises, always. :)

[ More reading for those interested - dedicated winter tire versus snow rated all terrain and How much of a difference will winter tires make on cold... ]
 
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#6 ·
Agreed - the factory Falkens are quite...er....sporting 😅 , when there's ice on the roadway.....

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For those who see ice routinely, I favor either "Studless Ice and Snow" or outright studded winters, based on typical winter temperatures and legality (both equally important).

If it's cold enough in that particular locale, typically, studded tires will be allowed: however, in some areas (this is not aimed at @Steve70 , but rather, readers who are not as well-versed in winter weather driving), the window of time during which studded tires are allowed can be significantly shorter than the window of potential wintry weather. Typically, no enforcement action is taken -certainly not during storms- but it can be a worry particularly for those whose yearly municipal/state vehicle inspections fall within those periods.

Even with today's tire technology, at temperatures closer to the freezing point, tests still show studded tires to offer significantly more traction on icy surfaces. Where temperatures are higher (closer to freezing), premium modern studded tires consistently perform better, while modern premium "Studless Ice & Snow" tires start to reverse that trend at approx. 9 deg. F. (-13 deg. C.). By the time roadway temperatures reach 0 deg. F. (-18 deg C.), the ice surface has become so cold that studs can no longer effectively "chip in" to enhance traction, and modern "Studless Ice & Snow" tires start to really shine. Russian enthusiasts were among the first to report this data well over a decade ago ( https://www.zr.ru/content/articles/16906-test_shipy_i_lipuchki_na_ldu_kazus_gradusa/ ), and soon after, European and Scandinavian tests actually stopped cross-comparing these two winter tire sub-genres, noting clear advantages of either as based on such conditions. Instead, now, we see a clear division in those winter tire tests, completely separating the testing of studded winters with "Studless Ice and Snows." [ A more comprehensive discussion in this past thread: Studded snow tires or Blizzaks? ]

Users of modern premium "Studless Ice & Snow" tires shouldn't feel somehow ashamed that their tires don't carry metal spikes - and similarly, modern premium studded winter tire users should also not feel ashamed that their tires do. :) It's all about seeking that edge in performance based on actual conditions.

One final thing to note is that modern "Studless Ice & Snow" tires do rely on typically more wear-prone, "softer" compounds - either as a specialized top-layer of a dual-layer compounding strategy or through-and-through. This means not only generalized lower treadlife, but also a not insignificant decrease in performance (read: reduction of the safety envelope) in clear-dry and clear-wet conditions (where, in spite of cold temperatures -even below-freezing ambient temperatures - there is no frozen precipitation on the roadway) as compared to all other tires (of similar quality), be they "All Seasons," "All Weather," "Performance Winter," or studdable winter tires. There's compromises, always. :)

[ More reading for those interested - dedicated winter tire versus snow rated all terrain and How much of a difference will winter tires make on cold... ]
Good info. Very true. Unless one lives and drives where the sun always shines, there is no perfect tire

Studs are illegal in MI. Everyone used them here back in the 60s and 70s. They do chew up paved roads. I'm good with sacrificing whatever edge they may have for that reason alone. While neighborhood streets usually remain snow covered for the winter, the highways are well plowed and heavily salted. A few days after any storm, as in 18 to 24 plus inches, the main highways are typically bare again making studs a very expensive choice for road degradation.


Where is "here" out of curiosity?
Just west of the center of the UP of MI.
 
#12 ·
I did include a couple of dandies, but this is non mountainous snow country.

I think there are still many that live where I do that just run the tires the cars come with.. All brands. Snow tires have made good inroads here though. Unless you have run snow tires you have no frame of reference to judge by... But once you do it's not hard to find fault with all season tires in winter

Our situation is different from many. My wife retired from teaching in 2001 after 30 years. I pulled the pin in 2/2007. We don't have to go or be anywhere if things are bad. While we can get some good snow in October, typically from November on is when it starts more steadily. We basically have about 8 weeks of winter these days before heading out. Probably 100-120." The Destination LE2s on our Ridgeline were bad enough at 27K miles that I bought Viking Contact 7 wheel/tire package in 12/19. They have about 5 months total time on them and 1/32nd of wear. The tranny in the RL let us down. I'm going to Carvanna it when fixed. That wheel /tire package will cost us unless a G3 Ridgeline comes along we like.

For now, we're very happy to be in the Ascent. My wife has bonded well with it and so have I. Let the new journey begin!

For reference.. The older picture above with me in it: I'm just under 6' 2" back then. Just over 6' 1" now. The life cycle marches on 😊
 
#11 ·
I typically get a winter or two on OEM tires before getting rid of them. Figured the Falkens weren't all that great. Nothing beats the RE92s which were OEM Subaru tire of choice for their performance offerings a decade or more ago; they were universally panned for extremely poor winter performance.
 
#17 ·
Nice title, OP.

As a new Ascent owner I was bummed to read the OP’s post, but not surprised. The tires that came on my 2019 Forester were the worst tires I’ve ever driven in winter, but I was hoping those on the Ascent might be a bit better. For cars lauded as snow machines, I find it strange that this is how they come equipped in regions with up to 6 months of snow.

From what I’ve read here, sounds like the Geolandars or such are a good compromise if you want to run one tire all year? I was planning to buy winter wheels and tires but all the wheels I had in my cart are now “sold out for the season”.
 
#19 ·
It's 6F here today. It got into the mid 20s by mid afternoon yesterday. After a day out shopping yesterday, my wife did remark last night how quickly the tires lost grip. Of course, I had repeatedly told her to be careful...that she was driving on a lesser tire than we've been used to. Steering and stopping are the main attributes for safety IMO. That's what will keep you alive

For a direct comparison: the Michelin Primacy MXM4 that was the stock rubber on our 300S AWD in 2017 were much better than these...and that's a big family sedan. In the three years we had it, I never felt the need from a safety standpoint to change the tires for the roughly 8 weeks of winter we see.

That ties into my position that Subaru could easily have done a tad better...especially given their chops in the AWD arena.
 
#24 ·
I'm not as good with breaking out sentences in the copy and paste quote arena :)

I have these questions and comments @TSiWRX

Please point me to some data that the intent for siped tires and snow use is to hang onto snow rather than bite for traction and then clear it, That's contrary to my old head's way of thinking. I might even see some smoke coming out :unsure:

I ran the Artic Altimax tires on our 06 Passat 4-Motion the 1st year they came to this country. They were OK, but not nearly as good as Blizzaks. It was my first foray away from Blizzaks. However, They wore like iron! I wore them year round for the 2.5 years we had the car. Kind of reminded me of the Wranglers I had on the work trucks. The stock rubber on the Passat was absolutely useless! ...yes maybe even worse than the Falkens. I'm a equal opportunity tire basher :)

I disagree about the reasoning Subaru may have used for coming up with a lesser tire. Everything is relative. Our 300S AWD had a better tire. It's RWD 300 counterpart came with a far lesser tire for snow. Our Ridgelines both came with a better tire right out the box. Not great, but much better. Subaru only makes AWD these days. They should have done better IMHO. I also think that AWD Subarus have far more 'traction' in snow country than sun country. They're big around here for 50 years now. ...again meriting a better stock tire.

At the end of the day, I'm accepting of what is. I come to car forums to discuss the good, the bad, and the ugly from an unbiased position. I also come to learn and have already. I appreciate the discussion! I don't have brand bias. I've had as many as 4 stripes in the garage at once although I will say currently there only two. Subaru and lots of MOPAR HP :)
 
#25 ·
I'm not as good with breaking out sentences in the copy and paste quote arena :)
No worries - I'm on old Forum user, so I know all the tricks! :p ;)

I have these questions and comments @TSiWRX

Please point me to some data that the intent for siped tires and snow use is to hang onto snow rather than bite for traction and then clear it, That's contrary to my old head's way of thinking. I might even see some smoke coming out :unsure:
This was something that also defied my own understanding at the time, but it came from a genuine tire engineer, so I asked him a couple of follow-on questions (as you are doing now - but specifically, he pointed to the void-size -to- rotational speed behavior [winter sipes versus A/T and M/T tread void design, with the easy example being size], as well as the then known-to-me fact that ice at significantly below-freezing temperatures actually can approach the friction coefficient of concrete roadways), and it started to make sense.

That said, unfortunately, the only ready reference I was able to easily find is:


^ I say unfortunately because that resource also uses an empirical example instead of a more solidly factual one. :giggle: I'm in full detective mode, gimmie a bit, I hope to return with more. 🧐

Meanwhile....

The common understanding is that the winter sipe design flexes apart upon roadway contact in order to offer "more bite," but it is almost never explained exactly what it is that the tire is "biting into" (it's been pointed out to me that the language of the claims tend to be very carefully constructed - near universally [regardless of manufacturer], claims read/say that the sipes "dig deeper and harder into snow and on ice" while "channeling away water and slush from under the tire" - neither ever actually mentions the roadway surface itself). Empirically, on heavily snow, ice, or hardpack-covered roadways, we understand that the tire isn't really "biting into" and contacting the roadway surface, but rather, that there is just additional frozen precipitation that it's "walking over," as illustrated in this monster of a winter tire thread, on NASIOC - The Winter Tire thread- all winter tire questions go here !!! - NASIOC (with the introductory post by TireRack's winter tire specialist, Luke). I honestly don't remember if we ever got into the snow-on-snow discussion, there, but it's possible.....

I ran the Artic Altimax tires on our 06 Passat 4-Motion the 1st year they came to this country. They were OK, but not nearly as good as Blizzaks. It was my first foray away from Blizzaks. However, They wore like iron! I wore them year round for the 2.5 years we had the car. Kind of reminded me of the Wranglers I had on the work trucks. The stock rubber on the Passat was absolutely useless! ...yes maybe even worse than the Falkens. I'm a equal opportunity tire basher :)
Yup. Me too. I have no allegiances. (y)

The dual-layer Blizzak models suffered from what some would suggest to be excessive wear of that top, near-magical layer - it's a compromise (much like anything else ;) ) - and has long been something that Bridgestone's competitors specifically attacked. At the North America introduction of the current generation of Michelin "Studless Ice & Snow" tires circa the 2008-9 winter season, the host featured comparable winters shaved to half-tread-depth: and this is precisely at this tread-depth where Bridgestone's proprietary compound is no longer present.

And once the dual-layer Blizzaks have worn past that ~half-way point, the magic dissipates (essentially a double-bogey of return to a more common winter compound, plus the now considerably less tread-depth) - which is why Bridgestone has tried to incorporate more full-depth features, starting with the current-generation WS90.

In terms of the General Altimax Arctics, without studs, their lack of top-tier compounding (combined with rather stagnant tread design: they are a copy of the old - but highly venerated - Gislaved Nordfrost 3) that stays pliable at ever-decreasing temps is likely what you felt as the difference between the two. Without studs, the majority of ice traction thus falls to compounding, and here, the Altimax Arctics simply could not match what Bridgestone throws at its R&D of ever-better refinements for its dual-layer Blizzak line. 💸💵💰

But as you noted the Altimax Arctics wore very well - and this is also thanks to its compounding and physical architecture: in being a studdable winter, both of those features need to take into account the need to "anchor" studs. Indeed, typically, "studdable winters" as a winter-tire sub-genre tends to wear not inconsiderably better (i.e. have longer treadlife) versus "Studless Ice & Snows. Similarly, we can also see the more robust nature of the compounding and physical architecture of studdable winters play out particularly in dry testing, where the less robust compounding of the "Studless Ice & Snow" tires often leads to not only quantifiable deficiencies in performance (i.e. longer stopping distances - https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2021-Studless-and-Studded-Winter-Tyre-Test.htm this is a very recent test, but I've talked about this many times over the years: Studded vs Studdless Winter Tires on Forester?, and Wasting money on studded tires?), but also empirically in visible tread block damage.

I disagree about the reasoning Subaru may have used for coming up with a lesser tire. Everything is relative. Our 300S AWD had a better tire. It's RWD 300 counterpart came with a far lesser tire for snow. Our Ridgelines both came with a better tire right out the box. Not great, but much better. Subaru only makes AWD these days. They should have done better IMHO. I also think that AWD Subarus have far more 'traction' in snow country than sun country. They're big around here for 50 years now. ...again meriting a better stock tire.
It's not so much that the tire is "lesser" in every way - rather, it's just "lesser" in the manner that we want it to be :p:poop:, when there's wintry frozen precipitation on the ground.

The OE Falkens fare well in terms of both straight-line hydroplane resistance as well as in stopping distances (in the dry, which is what I can recall off the top of my head, the Ascent fares better than class average), both of which are in-part attributable to the tires. Similarly, it's not common to find complaints of cabin road/tire noise.

I've only been privy to a peek at what resources one tire-maker threw at their halo product, where that manufacturer worked so tightly hand-in-hand at homologation (forgive the outside link, but I wanted to be sure that readers of this thread are familiar with this term - What is a homologated tire ?) that each brand not only supplied a test vehicle for that purpose, but also even together trained specialized, dedicated test-drivers in order to properly "tune" the characteristics of that tire. I don't for a minute doubt that these companies wouldn't give the same thought to tires which they are fitting to mainstream production vehicles.

Absolutely, I agree that these Falkens could do better in the slippery stuff - but I don't know what they may have to give up, in order to do so. :)

At the end of the day, I'm accepting of what is. I come to car forums to discuss the good, the bad, and the ugly from an unbiased position. I also come to learn and have already. I appreciate the discussion! I don't have brand bias. I've had as many as 4 stripes in the garage at once although I will say currently there only two. Subaru and lots of MOPAR HP :)
Same here! It's my daily fun - and where I also hope to learn something, too! :)

Oh, and I'm going to be really jealous if you say that you've got a Grand Cherokee Trackhawk parked beside your Subaru! :cool:
 
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#27 ·
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#29 ·
^ @Jim_in_PA - give my follow-up posts (#25, 26, and 27) a read. ;)

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Also, I found -


^ From a quick read of this article (which is now a decade down the line from when that patent was granted to Pirelli Tires), it seems that the actual friction comes not necessarily from what's picked up in the treads, but the "ploughing force" of the snow surrounding the sipes.

I then spent $25 and accessed this article, which was cited as a reference in the one above.....

S. Ripka, H. Lind, M. Wangenheim, J. Wallaschek, K. Wiese, B. Wies; Investigation of Friction Mechanisms of Siped Tire Tread Blocks on Snowy and Icy Surfaces. Tire Science and Technology 1 March 2012; 40 (1): 1–24. doi: https://doi.org/10.2346/1.3684409

^ The ice traction stuff was way beyond my college physics understanding (I'm a biological scientist, for crying out loud! :ROFLMAO:), but in terms of snow traction, it seems that the "snow on snow" friction is better explained as a shearing force - the tread element (sipe) penetrates the loose, powder snow (void) and shears the compacted snow ridge (formed from tire contact pressure) off - thus enabling the generation of more friction. [ It was interesting also to me that this shearing force is dependent on both tread element size as well as the speed at which this interaction occurs. ]

So it is "snow on snow," but not in the way we necessarily envision it.....

There seems to be a seminal work by Browne, dated 1974 (Browne, A.L., 1974. Tire traction on snow-covered pavements. In The Physics of Tire Traction (pp. 99-139). Springer, Boston, MA.), but I seem to only be able to find the ~$90 ebook. My institution doesn't have access to this one, either, and I didn't want to spend any more of my wife's money (I meant my money!) today. 😅
 
#37 ·
Oh hey, I'm just seeing this thread. Hey there from the Grand Rapids area. Can confirm the OEM Falkens are nearly worthless in even SW Michigan winter. We got the Ascent in January '19, and while my wife was thrilled at how much better it was than the minivans we'd gotten used to...she was disappointed that it was still pretty squirmy. When the Falkens wore out, we put on a set of Goodyear WeatherReady all-seasons that have been great -- I actually have a set on my old Mercury boat of a grandpa-car and they took it from scary to ok in the snow.

And we don't need much more than a/s tires down here. We lived near Traverse City for ten years and could have used dedicated snows there....and that's got NOTHING on your UP snow. Dang, man. I remember the blizzard of '95/96 -- 100" of snow over 5 days...Nat'l Guard plowing I-75 up by the Soo..and Buffalo, NY hogging the news because they got all of 36". 🙄
 
#38 ·
Oh hey, I'm just seeing this thread. Hey there from the Grand Rapids area. Can confirm the OEM Falkens are nearly worthless in even SW Michigan winter. We got the Ascent in January '19, and while my wife was thrilled at how much better it was than the minivans we'd gotten used to...she was disappointed that it was still pretty squirmy. When the Falkens wore out, we put on a set of Goodyear WeatherReady all-seasons that have been great -- I actually have a set on my old Mercury boat of a grandpa-car and they took it from scary to ok in the snow.

And we don't need much more than a/s tires down here. We lived near Traverse City for ten years and could have used dedicated snows there....and that's got NOTHING on your UP snow. Dang, man. I remember the blizzard of '95/96 -- 100" of snow over 5 days...Nat'l Guard plowing I-75 up by the Soo..and Buffalo, NY hogging the news because they got all of 36". 🙄
Yes, I remember that too. The National Guard was called to the Soo. Very unusual for our area. The picture above I posted was from that event I think. The Soo got more! Just a few years ago in the spring we got 5 feet over 8 days or so from about April 5th to the 10th. Another time back in the late 80s we got close to a 2 footer the 2nd week in May. One thing about weather events like that in the spring is that the sun is higher, the ground is thawing, and the road surfaces have some heat in them. It disappears in a matter of days. Flooding and run off is more the issue then

Yes, I do get quite a kick out of how the 'news' plants themselves someplace for what we consider a minor snow event. As I stated above a 12 incher here doesn't even warrant much conversation...just another day in the life UP here. :)
 
#40 ·
Often discussed when a dedicated winter tire is indicated for the vehicle owner's geography...and then the question switches to "which" Blizzak. There are multiple models. There are also very worthy competitors.
 
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#42 · (Edited)
^ Weird.....

No joke. I have a set of 7 (XLs) coming to me tomorrow. I know that they didn't do so well in TireRack's testing, but a lot of the overseas tests contradict those results and suggest that they'd be what I was looking for: with the $70 rebate offer and Capital One running a 7% cash-back on TR purchases, It was hard for me to resist yet another set of winters.

The underlying reason was that we're looking at the possibility of a few road trips this winter, and the little one and I decided that there just wasn't enough tread above the Winter Platform on the DM-V2s to risk it.

I'll mount the Conti's when they arrive tomorrow and break them in before the trips. Likely will then dismount and run-out the DM-V2s over the course of the rest of the season.

I had really wanted a set of studded Hakkas, but that's gonna have to wait until next winter. :)
 
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#43 ·
^ Weird.....

No joke. I have a set of 7 (XLs) coming to me tomorrow. I know that they didn't do so well in TireRack's testing, but a lot of the overseas tests contradict those results and suggest that they'd be what I was looking for: with the $70 rebate offer and Capital One running a 7% cash-back on TR purchases, It was hard for me to resist yet another set of winters.
When I bought the Contact 7s,they hadn't been reviewed yet by TR. I just read the whole report. I don't see where they didn't well? It seemed to be a very good report on them to me... Holding their own or winning in several categories. I took a chance with them, but am as satisfied as I was with the Blizzaks.. Quieter too.
 
#45 ·
Yes, my personal seat of the pants comparison was to my Blizzaks experience. In these charts, it beats the Blizzaks in every category but one. It took 1st in acceleration and braking and was quite comparable in the others. I think it a very good report on 'The 7' overall.
 
#46 · (Edited)
^ Ah! I get it, now - you're looking at them relative to the Blizzaks tested. That's where I was confused. I was looking overall. ;)

The Contis did take first in acceleration and braking in the snow, but fell to the other side of the pack in their ice tests.

Their "Performance Drive" rating also showed the Contis on the lower half of the pack in "Traction During Acceleration" (which is weird, given that it placed first in the "Snow Traction" test) and "Overall Snow Rating," and was consistently ranked below the Bridgestone in all aspects of that section.

----

ETA: UPS just delivered the Contis...... I let my daughter pick the rims this time, so we'll see.

It's a heavy flurry outside now, and the ground's wet. It'll be sunny and dry tomorrow, but a nippy 20 or so. I guess I can't really win this one. :ROFLMAO:
 
#47 ·
@TSiWRX I was comparing with Blizzaks as that was the tire I've held others too and had much experience with. BUT...I still come away from the charts thinking the Conti performed quite well. One test had a little more didsparity...the ice stop. They tested well enough, that if I were looking to buy again, and they were cheaper (as they were when I did get them) I would buy them in lieu of the others

I've been buying tires and wheels from TR since around 1987. I like them a lot! One small thing I've noticed over time is that in the test write ups...they sometimes seem to shade the new guy a tad versus the 'gold' standard...like they have to earn their chops a little before they get their due props. Not sure if that's the case here. Some of the testing in the report is quite subjective as regards the pros and cons of each

I'll be curious to read how they work for you. I'm thinking you should like them (y)
 
#48 ·
@TSiWRX I was comparing with Blizzaks as that was the tire I've held others too and had much experience with.
(y)

BUT...I still come away from the charts thinking the Conti performed quite well. One test had a little more didsparity...the ice stop. They tested well enough, that if I were looking to buy again, and they were cheaper (as they were when I did get them) I would buy them in lieu of the others

I've been buying tires and wheels from TR since around 1987. I like them a lot! One small thing I've noticed over time is that in the test write ups...they sometimes seem to shade the new guy a tad versus the 'gold' standard...like they have to earn their chops a little before they get their due props. Not sure if that's the case here. Some of the testing in the report is quite subjective as regards the pros and cons of each
1987! That was only two years after we came to the States (well, we came in '84, but it was the winter of that year, so 😅). I didn't start until 2003 or so. You could almost say that you're one of their OGs!

Subjectivity in tire testing is OK, I feel, especially when those rendering opinion are true experts - I just wish that those who interject such into their tests/reviews would make it more apparent when they are doing so. There's a lot that pure numbers (particularly when the raw numbers are that close to each other) cannot fully convey.

In terms of testing biases and various limitations, I think that's also inevitable. More on this in a minute.....

I'll be curious to read how they work for you. I'm thinking you should like them (y)
Me too. These are only my second set of Contis, ever.

I've been leery of Continental winters since their juicing of overseas testing in the early oughts (Do you know where your tires were made? Now you can be...). Then, when one of their higher-ups in the NA market, by way of an industry interview, insinuated that Canadian and American shoppers were too stupid to understand test results and instead were susceptible to emotional marketing...well, that just pushed me over the edge. :ROFLMAO: It's been a while since I'd re-visited this brand.

That said, the latest overseas tests really speak highly of these tires, so yup, I put my money where my mouth was, and decided to give them a shot. :).
 
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#50 · (Edited)
^ I wish I had the foresight to save that interview with the representative from Continental. Try as I might now, I can't even find where I initially referenced it, much less the original source video.

The honest truth is that I don't really hold much of either of those against Conti. They're just out to make a buck, like any of the other manufacturers - and it's not like they're alone in their guilt. :)

Besides, I'm a brand ronin - I have no brand loyalty to speak of. :ROFLMAO:

All the ronin......



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#51 ·
We've shoveled here 3 times now...not much each time, but a little. It's snowing now. Our subdivision roads are all snow covered and packed right now. Normal winter roads here. Yesterday I got to experiment a little more with The Falken, the snow, and The System. The temp was high teens to low 20s. I don't have many places to test things out in our sub, but several corners, including a carousel, have afforded a common testing grounds for comparison of tires and systems over the years. I was a bit encouraged by the experience yesterday . The Falkens hung in there better than the other day for all facets: steering, stopping, and traction. With this very limited experience, I'm also quite pleased with the Subaru system. It seems tuned well for front/rear bias when being pushed. What I've noticed so far is that there is a tad of oversteer coming from the back end as the aids kick in. I like that. It's more natrual for me. I liked our RWD/AWD 300S for that same reason. While we've been snowbirds for quite a while, there's still part of me that likes playing in the snow with vehicles....for 6-8 weeks :)

To be continued...
 
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