I'm interested. Can you tell me how big of a difference you anticipate these bushings to make? And how long do you think they will last? Our Ascent will be 9/10ths family hauler.

 

Typically "poly" - urethane is considered to lifetime, vs sulfur derived rubber.

CKE SSP bushing will NOT last a lifetime. I would consider them to have similar durability to the rubber in the car with some extended durability. In the 2010-2018 Outbacks, you can see major bushing deformation in the STOCK bushings as early as 50K miles. (3 years) More in the front than the rear. However, the Ascent mount the rear sway bar differently then in the OBs. The rear bar is mounted directly to the chassis, mounts up, a direct tie. The OB rear sway bar is mounted to the rear floating subframe which carries the rear suspension components. The 2 early Gen Foresters untilized a direct chasis tie similar to the Ascent. I expect this was done to have much better control to the back end.

The rear bushing design for the 2010-2018 OBs (and WRX/STI) has also abandoned. The RSBB now utilizes the same design and strap as the front sway bar bushing similar to the rest of the Global Platform front sway bar bushings. This tells me, it is designed to handle greater forces.

As to how much difference they will make? It's a good guess for anyone until folks start strapping them on and providing butt-dyno feedback. I have product data sheets, with all kinds of numbers, but without the same data for the stock rubber, it's not really relevant. I have come up with a device I can to test the difference, however, the cost and time to fabricate it is prohibitive. My products are cast by hand in a cottage-business style, no fancy injection molding machines. There is a reason I am the only manufacturer who represents exact stock styles and none of the bigboys like WhiteLine, Energy Suspension or Prothane do.

Because the process is to difficult and they can't be pumped out like typical aftermarket fodder.

I can tell you, the stock rubber durometer is targeted at 60-65d. I will be making 2 hardnesses. (durometer)
85d, which will be comparable to any "hard" aftermarket "poly". Then I make a 75d which splits the difference between the 85d and the stock.

There have been extensive discussions on the Outback forum, and as time goes on, maybe I can link a "quotes"

 

What's the purpose for the modification on bushings and mount?

 

There is no modification to the mount. The bushing is simply "harder". If you have ever modified the suspension of a truck or sport-type car, harder, "poly" bushings are utilized everywhere vs the stock rubber.

In the case of the Ascent, it will tighten up the handling a bit. Quicker reactions to suspension changes and body roll. The drawback to adding less compliant bushings in some locations is NVH. (Noise, Vibration, Harshness) For anyone who has ever driven a Mazda, these cars are riddled with it.

I was initially very cautious producing sway bar bushings for family cars. I was concerned adding harder bushing to the 2010-2018 Outback would be a terrible idea from an NVH standpoint. I have my own bushings in my 2005 and my 2006 and they have a considerably lighter chassis. I have noticed increased harshness in my cars, but my cars have aluminum arms and poly everywhere I can get. There is very little rubber left in either.

With all of the Outback and Leggy customers so far, NVH has not been a problem. I even made a set in 90d for one guy. They are so hard they needed to be in 2 pieces. Not flexible enough to bend around the bar. The Ascent is larger, with more structure. NVH will be even less of an issue with this model.

 

I'm hopeful that the result will be good based on your speculation. If you ever need a test mule, please sign me up and I can provide independent testings for you.

 

I need several. Hopefully this forum can build the same benefit for owners as the Outbacker's did. I have a couple local friends with 2010-2014 OBs, I was able to evaluate my applicable mods on their cars from both the passenger and driver's seat. I also am part of a tuning group with many 2010-2018 Legacy and OBs. The group made out like bandits. I must have comped a dozen sets (gratis) with the initial R&D.

The only Ascent owners I am going have contact with is Here, at least initially. Those who are serious , those who can provide feedback will be critical. I am thinking I will be sending out 4 to 6 sets. Or pairs. It depends. Some folks my just want to stiffen the rear. Some may want the 85d rear and the 75d front. Some may want matched sets. Some may NOT CARE at all, because they think the car is fine.

I like running the stock rubber on the stock front sway bar on my OBs and running an 85d on the rear.

We don't yet know how this chassis performs for daily users. Is that daily user 1 kiddo and 3 dogs and bikes? Or is that user a Father of 5 with a packed rig all the time. Or, is that a couple with just dogs and gear, planning a lift and big tires. These are all differnt end users and each may benefit from different bushing combinations.

 

I'm interested...

 

So, it appears you have your car then? I was supposed to see bushings today. If they push into next week. I could have test product ready to ship by the end of next week.

 

I am not going to see bushings or a mount until after the holiday.

I will keep the thread posted.

 

No Moss on this Rolling Stone

I expected to be casting master molds (this weekend) for the sway bar bushings I didn't get.

So, instead I retro fitted (2017 Impreza FSB bushings - rear)b and 2012-2013 LGT sway bar bushings and modified 2015-2018 Outback front sway bar straps, and 2010-2014 front sway bar straps...Because, idle hands, right?

To ...

This is the common WhiteLine front and rear sway bar upgrades for the 2005-2009 Leggy/OB. This is what I do in may spare time. Make things better for out cars. Your Ascents are in freakishly good hands when they actually hit the road.

 

Hopefully the delay in my Ascent parts is not indicative of the delivery dates for the actual car. Still waiting, they are supposedly still in transit. I think the bushings I make from scratch, ship faster.



I'll keep you all posted.

 

Hopefully the delay in my Ascent parts is not indicative of the delivery dates for the actual car. Still waiting, they are supposedly still in transit. I think the bushings I make from scratch, ship faster.

/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif

I'll keep you all posted.

Do you know if those bushings are brand new designs or borrowed from an existing model vehicle? I hope they aren't just saying they're on their way when in fact won't actually ship till the Ascent ships.

 

No Sway Bar Bushing yet, No ETA

Well the trans mount is in. The sway bar bushings are not. I'm really not all that excited about the trans insert, I don't necessarily think it will be much benefit to a new mount unless folks are towing or lifting the car. It is likely the voided area the insert takes up is the same as the Outback anyway.

No ETA either. I did verify for sure the front and rear bushing is the same part number though. That means the same diameter bar front and rear It's probably 22mm. There is no way the reduced the front sway bar in size from the OB, which is 21mm. I would expect it to be larger. However, these bars, I expect are wider.

Also, this leads me to believe there will be zero rear sway bar upgrades available. It appears, for now, bushings will be the only way to further lock down the chassis. Time will tell I suppose once these things start hitting the road.

 

I was NOT able to confirm the sway bars are 24mm. I was told front and rear were the same part number buy my dealer, Mike Shaw. I am not sure what the counter guy was smoking. This is clearly not the case. Here is my "cart" from 5 min ago, Mike Shaw parts website. Clearly different part numbers. I will cancel the "mystery bushing" that is on order and hopefully have both front and rear in my hands in a few days.

 

I was able to confirm the sway bars are 24mm. Since the same part number, front and rear should be the same. But was not able to confirm from the parts website. Hopefully that bushing comes in soon. I am getting anxious.

Do you trust the website to know the parts will fit the Ascent? What's the website you're using to look up the parts?

 

Update-No Update

I am frustrated. My local deal can tell me nothing. Other than the Subi computer says these bushing are her, in this country. However, I have no other information, they tell me they can't get any more info.

I think I am going to call Heurberger in the morning. Maybe they can get them. It might be nice to take a run down the the "Springs" anyway.

 

Still Crickets

Yeah ... this bushing thing is killing me. There are cars hitting the road, and these things are in limbo. As soon as I have something to copy, I will.

At least the signature thing is fixed.

 

Finally an Update

I finally have some definitive news. The rear sway bar bushing is shipping to my dealer today. Well ... a label was created. Yay! The front bushing is showing an estimated release July 9th. I will keep the thread posted.

 

I just got the call

The new sway bar bushings are here ....

The new sway bar bushings are here ... I am about as excited.

 

Potential for RSB Upgrade

Ok, I picked up the bushings. The front is a 24mm the rear is a 19mm. What that means is a 20mm from a STI or the 22mm Whiteline aftermarket bar will fit the Ascent. Whether any of you deem a larger bar necessary or not, they will fit.

One caveat to either bar as an upgrade, there are no bushings that will work with the chassis and the brackets at this time. Not to worry, I will have some hybrid bushings by the end of the week. CKE SSP will be the only bushing that will allow this upgrade. Subaru and the global platform are making some changes.

Their bushing technology (as far bushing shape) is advancing. It's really cool in-fact but I won't bore you all with details.

They are greasing bushings now, so, you can't pigeon hole "poly" as bad for needing grease, OEM rubber does now it would seem.

What it means is bushing straps and bushing seats (beds on the chassis side) are being standardized. Just the rubber plug is different. This advance makes for very good fun for me. I can take any inside diameter and make a bushing to fit any car on the global platform. Including the above mention Whiteline 22mm bar.

Master molds for CKE SSP FSB and RSB performance bushing are are curing as I type.

 

2 sets of Performance Bushings (75)

For anyone who is interested. I have 2 test sets available for R&D test mules. Ok, I have (2) front sway bar sets and (2) rear bar sets. I will break them up for good reason. Rear sets would be more popular I expect based on past experience with Subarus. I will post some pictures shortly. These test sets are essentially a tinted black. I put a drop of color into them so I can differentiate them from my other offerings. Rear have a drop of red, front have a drop of orange, which equals brown. After 5 days under the car, even the most skilled tech would never notice anything different than stock.

These kits will be provided free of charge, feedback is required. Depending on interest, more R&D kits may be offered.

Post here or PM me if you have interest.

 

Im interested

Im interested for sure... i would love to try out something to help mitigate the body roll... love everything else about our ascent. If you havent sent them off to other users already let me know..

 

Im interested for sure... i would love to try out something to help mitigate the body roll... love everything else about our ascent. If you havent sent them off to other users already let me know..

Somehow I missed this. I did get a PM and hen forgot about needing test mules. I hope to hear back with a shipping address. Anyone else? One test set left.

 

@lestereric

I have not heard back yet with a shipping address. Bump for the other bushing set. Would anyone like a test set?

 

Ok, one set of front and rear bushings is getting shipped on Monday to @lestereric

I am currently working on install instructions. Swapping out sway bar bushings is usually easy work. I just took a ride out to my local dealer to get some pictures to possibly go along with the schematics. The rear is easy, was able to get some clear pictures.

The front is more challenging that usual. If anyone can get a picture front directly underneath the sway bar mount, that would be super. I wasn't able to get a good shot. It looks like is only a small window in which to access the bolts. The global platform Legacy/Outback have the sway bar bolted to the front frame structure. The Ascent, the sway bar is bolted to the Engine subframe like the WRX and other turbo models. However, the large rear mounting bolt for the front frame, looks like ti partially obstructs the sway bar clam access.

It would seem ridiculous the front frame would need removal to access the sway bar bushings. That turns $30 in parts and maintenance into a $200 labor bill. It does appear the front frame would have to come out for the sway bar itself to be removed. I am just looking for some clarification, I am assuming there is just enough room to access.

I suppose the 1st test mule will evaluate.

 

I am finally getting to sending these out to @lestereric.

There has got to be someone else out there who wants to further lock down the body roll. (1) free test set left. Then they go on Flea-Bay.

 

There has got to be someone else out there who wants to further lock down the body roll. (1) free test set left. Then they go on Flea-Bay.

Looks like you just shipped your final test set, but I'm just coming up to speed on this topic and am interested in learning more / checking things out. I'm coming from an Audi A3 and much smaller VW Tiguan and would love to tighten things up a bit - and the potentially related motion sickness thread also caught my eye... And N. Denver is pretty close to S. Boulder, fwiw

 

Got the bushings installed today, they took me about 1.5 hrs to get in... only because the front is a bit of a pain to access and install

Overall an easy upgrade and totally worth it.

Body roll is significantly reduced from stock and the steering feels far less disconnected from the drive of the car. I do NOT see a reason that i would need to increase the thickness of the sway bars to further mitigate body roll as i intended to (and as i did for my 2016 outback (20MM RSB)).

The CKE SSP Bushings are enough of an upgrade for this car (my wifes) to call it good. I will admit i was skeptical that the bushings would be enough of an upgrade, i am pleasantly surprised with the results. I forgot to take pictures along the way otherwise i would post those.

Thank you TRAILDOGCK

 

Thank You for going though the effort. When I crawled under the front of an Ascent at the dealer, it looked to be very tight access.

Thank You for the feedback as well regarding the performance. Car & Driver reviewed the Ascent as having decent body roll control already. Bumping up the bushings is a positive.

When I 1st developed the Outback bushings, I started with the 75d (durometer). I make higher performance bushing in an 85d, however, they are as hard typical "poly". I still have another set of 75d I am willing to comp out (gratis) for another willing soul. It's possible I may make a couple runs of the 85d also. It depends on the feedback about the 75d. I would have to hear about someone wanting harder than the 75d after testing or purchasing.

 

Front bushing install was a bit more of a pain, as you need to drop the plastic engine cover 4- 12MM bolts and about 12 automotive nylon rivet clips.

Passenger side clam access is for the front is super easy, driver side required a articulating adapter and extension for the 12mm nut and bolt, no need to drop the front frame. My fat stumpy fingers were able to get the bushings replaced without disconnecting the links (might give you more wiggle room).

The most difficult part of the install was getting the rear 12mm bolt on front driver side installed (probably took 30 mins of the 1.5 Hrs of total install of the 4 bushings) Subaru didn't give much extension on the threading for the rear nuts to thread on so took a bit of effort to force the clam and bushing against the frame and have the nut tread on properly without having it cross thread and strip the nut. Fat fingers, small spaces and poor leverage angles are a bad combo.

Might have gone smoother (quicker) if i wasn't on my back, on cardboard with the car on jack stands. Easy enough and worth the effort for sure.

 

Hopefully @MamaBear5 will be less sick.

https://www.ascentforums.com/forum/...2019-subaru-ascent-general-discussion-forum/3305-motion-sickness.html#post46127

I am shipping her both a performnace kit (75d-moderate upgrade) & a high performance kit
(85d-typical performance upgrade) for her sway bars.

The rest of you could befit as well, just saying.

 

Just saw your other post. Let me know if you need another tester as I'd be interested in trying them out. Would probably go with the 85d if available.

 

I'm interested in these as well after seeing the motion sickness issue my son had.

For installation can you drive up on ramps or do you need to actually have the car supported by the jack points? First time I will have done anything like this in any vehicle I have owned.

 

For sway bars you need both wheels with the same weight on them. The sway bar transfers *weight* from one side to the other. Basically as you corner the outside wheel feels more weight and the inside wheel gets less. The sway bar helps transfer that force back to the inside wheel which has the effect of flattening out the vehicle.

 

Do it do it dooooo eeeeeettttttttttt

Alright, may have to make a new post so this doesn't get buried but I cannot recommend this enough.

Seriously, it's solved 90% of my suspension complaints. If it was my car only and not the wife's daily I'd possibly get a bigger rear bar but I went with the 85D thinking the softer compound would not be enough and not really expecting the 85D to be enough. Boy was I wrong. I knew the oem bushing would be softer over time as it wears but did not think that the bushing would be this much of a difference. Pulling into the driveway is much smoother and turns are noticeably flatter.

The install time was about 10 minutes for both rears and driver side including setting up and pulling onto ramps. The ramps were only needed for the front as the rear is enough room to just lay down and do them. The front passenger side took me about 15 minutes by itself. I forced myself to not remove the plastic "skid plate" so it is doable. It would be easier but I did not want to mess with all the pop rivets.

Again, worth every penny. Thanks Chris!

 

Alright, may have to make a new post so this doesn't get buried but I cannot recommend this enough.

Seriously, it's solved 90% of my suspension complaints.

Again, worth every penny. Thanks Chris!

Excellent. I am not surprised, based on my work with the Legacy/Outback platform. I am happy my own OCD can trickle down and help others.