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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
How Subaru is both increasing market share, understanding its present and future customers and identifying trends.

Data is fundamental. Processing that data effectively is critical for reaching their goals.

Subaru provides conveniences in our vehicles and our customer service experiences in exchange for data points. Where we travel, how fast we drive, habits while driving, maintenance habits, financial information, when are we ready to buy, what features we are interested in. You get the point.

Data = $$$$$ whether used internally and or if sold to third parties.

consider all the apps we can connect to in our vehicles while we drive. Additional data points for creating profiles.
 

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Tesla is the worst in the data mining of personal info. They even use the onboard cameras to map the roads you drive on. Of course the cameras provide the safety and autonomous features for the driver but they're also selling the map data.

The "free" internet access, apps etc ship has sailed. Now, all your data gets sold and if you want more than the "basics", it's all behind a paywall.

Everyone should have figured this out when Google stopped using the "don't be evil" credo.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Tesla is the worst in the data mining of personal info. They even use the onboard cameras to map the roads you drive on. Of course the cameras provide the safety and autonomous features for the driver but they're also selling the map data.

The "free" internet access, apps etc ship has sailed. Now, all your data gets sold and if you want more than the "basics", it's all behind a paywall.

Everyone should have figured this out when Google stopped using the "don't be evil" credo.
many vehicle owners do not realize how their car is essentially a computer and how data is in fact transmitted such as through starlink, blackbox, subaru app, obd connections, remote start through the app etc.

these are all legitimate tradeoffs, but I think there needs to be open conversations about it between the manufacturers and owners (not simply a hidden clause in some misc document that we must sign when we buy the car).
 

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(not simply a hidden clause in some misc document that we must sign when we buy the car).
I don't recall signing a specific EUL at the dealer and never got copies of every last document they put in front of me but there's a ton of licensed software in that head unit. I forget which screen to access them but I think there's hundreds of licenses buried in there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I don't recall signing a specific EUL at the dealer and never got copies of every last document they put in front of me but there's a ton of licensed software in that head unit. I forget which screen to access them but I think there's hundreds of licenses buried in there.
they probably stipulate that by opening and using their software we agree to ...
 

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Wasn't it Jeep vehicles that got hacked a few years ago when in car wifi first became available? Scary to think some hacker could take control of your vehicle.
 

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Wasn't it Jeep vehicles that got hacked a few years ago when in car wifi first became available? Scary to think some hacker could take control of your vehicle.
That was a hack proof of concept demonstration for getting into the pcu and shutting down the engine. Of course that's always been possible but required proximity to the target vehicle. For law enforcement, a quick focused EMF would be easier to execute. Long term, law enforcement will use OnStar, Starlink etc from anywhere.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
That was a hack proof of concept demonstration for getting into the pcu and shutting down the engine. Of course that's always been possible but required proximity to the target vehicle. For law enforcement, a quick focused EMF would be easier to execute. Long term, law enforcement will use OnStar, Starlink etc from anywhere.
as autonomous vehicles come into being, there is increased security concerns for both control and data mining. These issues need to be openly addressed long before any launch.
 

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Maybe you should devote yourself to reading all the legal disclaimers and fine print to all the notices you acknowledge when you agree to terms and conditions for the use of any given electronic communication device. If digital privacy is a valid concern to you, don't use the products. The fact is, the cost of developing software and hardware to run it is leveraged by the collection and use of your anonymous data. Your cell phone is far more interesting at this point that vehicle data, since it is redundant who doesn't take their phone with them when they are driving...

For clarification, I am an industrial engineering student many of my classes revolve specifically around data collection and human factors, we discuss these topics at length. It is a bit eye opening, but as I mentioned in another thread on basically the same topic, I don't know why we need multiples but anywhoo, once you understand the use and practicality of the data you can manipulate it to your advantage whether that is increased anonymity or simply letting algorithms do some work for you.
 

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How Subaru is both increasing market share, understanding its present and future customers and identifying trends.

Data is fundamental. Processing that data effectively is critical for reaching their goals.

Subaru provides conveniences in our vehicles and our customer service experiences in exchange for data points. Where we travel, how fast we drive, habits while driving, maintenance habits, financial information, when are we ready to buy, what features we are interested in. You get the point.

Data = $$$$$ whether used internally and or if sold to third parties.

consider all the apps we can connect to in our vehicles while we drive. Additional data points for creating profiles.
A forward-thinking companies will leverage every opportunities, even if they sell us out or break rules/barriers. That's just how it is and I think it's more challenging for a boutique/small company like Subaru to succeed by following rules. Subaru is increasingly being commanded by Americans (i.e. SOA corp execs) and not by the Japanese American culture: break barriers/rules; Eastern cultures: follow rules. It won't surprise me if they sell us out, but let's see how far SOA will go.

Slang edited - Moderator.
 

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I disagree...

SoA is a wholly owned subsidiary of Subaru Corp (Japan, formerly named FHI), and, Tom Doll has been in charge of it for a long time. If there's anyone who wants to see them continue to embody the values of Subaru Corporation, I'd say it's Tom.

As a matter of fact, I am sure that Subaru Corp thinks so as well, which is why they've continued to expand his executive authority. And, Tom's second is a Subaru Corp employee, sent over to help him. Jinya Shoji, corporate vice president for global marketing of Subaru Corp, was sent here to work under Doll as a local executive vice president - also a decision made by Subaru Corp, by Nakamura (COO of Subaru Corp (Japan)).

SoA doesn't make those decisions - they all come from Japan.

Doll has been with Subaru since 1982, just 2 years after Subaru Corp (named Fuji Heavy Industries at the time) bought the entirety of Subaru of America, becoming its sole owner. He's been Vice President of Business and Strategic Planning since 1991, COO since 2009, President since 2013, and CEO since 2018. All decisions of this sort are made in Japan.


 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
A forward-thinking companies will leverage every opportunities, even if they sell us out or break rules/barriers. That's just how it is and I think it's more challenging for a boutique/small company like Subaru to succeed by following rules. Subaru is increasingly being commanded by Americans (i.e. SOA corp execs) and not by the Japanese American culture: break barriers/rules; Eastern cultures: follow rules. It won't surprise me if they sell us out, but let's see how far SOA will go.
Like china?
 

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Like china?
No! What I'm talking about is the unintended consequences. I don't believe companies would maliciously sell/trade data (or use data) solely for their own benefits, but they can't be awake enough to know the consequences of the usability (or distribution process) of the data. If you take a data record of a sold Ascent, the attributes include:
1. Details about the car;
2. Details of ownership:
  • Name
  • Address
  • Phone
  • Email address
  • Finance institution
And many other attributes.

e.g. if your personal or finance information is slipped through the distribution process and into the wrong hands, then people will be very upset
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
No! What I'm talking about is the unintended consequences. I don't believe companies would maliciously sell/trade data (or use data) solely for their own benefits, but they can't be awake enough to know the consequences of the usability (or distribution process) of the data. If you take a data record of a sold Ascent, the attributes include:
1. Details about the car;
2. Details of ownership:
  • Name
  • Address
  • Phone
  • Email address
  • Finance institution
And many other attributes.

e.g. if your personal or finance information is slipped through the distribution process and into the wrong hands, then people will be very upset
Not sure how you define malicious, but regardless, if that data is sold or traded for whatever reason (profit is not malicious) than I would want it spelled out in the privacy policy. I could choose to read that policy or not and then act accordingly as I wish. The issue is transparency and security of that information.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
No! What I'm talking about is the unintended consequences. I don't believe companies would maliciously sell/trade data (or use data) solely for their own benefits, but they can't be awake enough to know the consequences of the usability (or distribution process) of the data. If you take a data record of a sold Ascent, the attributes include:
1. Details about the car;
2. Details of ownership:
  • Name
  • Address
  • Phone
  • Email address
  • Finance institution
And many other attributes.

e.g. if your personal or finance information is slipped through the distribution process and into the wrong hands, then people will be very upset
For many decades I donated blood on a regular basis. that had to pause after I came back from being abroad. As soon as I was able I attempted to donate once again in my new US state of residence. I was told I need to provide my social security number to donate my blood so they could keep track of me. This was no fly by night operation. This is the largest blood bank in the state. I refused. I told them they could use my drivers license number or create a unique identifier which is what had been used by a different major blood bank for many years prior (in NY). I noted that even drivers licenses were abandoning using the social security number but they refused to budge as did I (I even spoke with the CEO). I was able to donate my blood via the Children's Hospital instead who did not require the Social. Years later that CEO changed that policy.

I have no doubt they were not collecting the Social Security numbers for nefarious reasons but it still placed my identity at significantly greater risk. Knowing the policy made all the difference in the world to me. I could act on my risk aversion.
 

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SSN is technically not supposed to be used for "identification" purposes. My college ID from the late 1970s has it as my student number, however. Many folks even engraved their SSNs on things in case they got stolen. Those were different times, for sure. If they only knew... ;)
 

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even drivers licenses were abandoning using the social security number
Literally no longer legal. It amazes me when companies want it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
SSN is technically not supposed to be used for "identification" purposes. My college ID from the late 1970s has it as my student number, however. Many folks even engraved their SSNs on things in case they got stolen. Those were different times, for sure. If they only knew... ;)
I knew even when I was much younger, but there was a high price of inconvenience paid. Despite the SS# only legal use was for federal taxes, the government made no enforcement efforts to control companies from asking for it.
 

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I have no doubt they were not collecting the Social Security numbers for nefarious reasons but it still placed my identity at significantly greater risk.
You were right to decline providing the SSN. The healthcare industry has been among the worst offenders when it comes to security breaches liberating SSNs. Everything from dumpster diving of non-shredded forms to massive data center hacks. The only reason they want it is for bad debt collection.

I will not vouch for the legality of the following, but you can generate a fake number using a site like this:
 
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