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It is very smooth through all the rpm range. I am sure it is not the same trans but wow it is still a cvt and very smooth. Maybe someone else can explain why this trans is so smooth compared to the Ascent.
Crosstrek doesn't have turbo. Don't underestimate the abrupt impacts that turbo response has on the Ascent's engine and drivetrain. With chain drive and early torque converter lockup, direct mechanical connection of the engine to the wheels makes everything felt. Smoothing the drivetrain in the Ascent has proven to be difficult.
 

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I really believe that eliminating the fake shifts and having the torque converter lock up either at higher rpms or higher road speeds would help if not eliminate all the cv t complaints. The cvt reacts way to slow when you are trying to accelerate from a dead stop, it's not smooth. As you push down on the accelerator to get the cvt to move to a lower fake gear the turbo then kicks in and throws you back and you have to let up. It is irritating to drive the car in town. Highway is not bad at all. Hope they address some of this with they update the trans controller. I have heard some people that have gotten a new cvt are saying they are much smoother? Any truth to this.
 

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2022 Ascent Onyx, Ice Silver
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Crosstrek doesn't have turbo. Don't underestimate the abrupt impacts that turbo response has on the Ascent's engine and drivetrain. With chain drive and early torque converter lockup, direct mechanical connection of the engine to the wheels makes everything felt. Smoothing the drivetrain in the Ascent has proven to be difficult.
I read a road test from an Aussie site on a large Hyundai turbo diesel AWD SUV with a "high torque, wet clutch 7-speed DCT". The reviewer put it thru a torture test by backing up a long steep hill repeatedly, trying to overheat it, and concluded it was bulletproof. Porsche and many high HP cars use DCTs with good results.

I wonder if a CVT is a 'bridge too far" for an SUV with the Ascent's weight and HP.
 

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Discussion Starter · #484 ·
I read a road test from an Aussie site on a large Hyundai turbo diesel AWD SUV with a "high torque, wet clutch 7-speed DCT". The reviewer put it thru a torture test by backing up a long steep hill repeatedly, trying to overheat it, and concluded it was bulletproof. Porsche and many high HP cars use DCTs with good results.

I wonder if a CVT is a 'bridge too far" for an SUV with the Ascent's weight and HP.
The problems, to date, are not in the CVT itself, but in the harness (2019) and TCM programming (2019-2020).
 

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The problems, to date, are not in the CVT itself, but in the harness (2019) and TCM programming (2019-2020).
I assume my 2022 Onyx (Sept 2021 build) has the latest and greatest hardware, programming, etc. But it seems "confused" until it reaches highway speeds. RPM goes up & down, TC in and out of lockup, etc. I've driven every type of transmission in my 60 years of driving, but this one just doesn't seem "sorted". No serious issues, just not quite right.
 

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I assume my 2022 Onyx (Sept 2021 build) has the latest and greatest hardware, programming, etc. But it seems "confused" until it reaches highway speeds. RPM goes up & down, TC in and out of lockup, etc. I've driven every type of transmission in my 60 years of driving, but this one just doesn't seem "sorted". No serious issues, just not quite right.
Exactly, not sorted well. I don't think that I've driven any automatic in the last 10-15 years that had as many "hunting" issues. They might not have always been in the gear needed, but they were smooth about it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #487 ·
RPM goes up & down
I hope so. It seems odd, but it's supposed to. Combination of varying RPMs and sliding CVT ratio.

TC in and out of lockup
I don't think that's the torque converter lock, but the wastegate, as I'd mentioned in some other thread as a possibility. I've been watching the lockup via ActiveOBD, and, at speed, it's always locked.

I've driven every type of transmission in my 60 years of driving, but this one just doesn't seem "sorted".
There's only ever been one transmission like the TR690HT, and that's the TR690 that preceded it in the 2010-2012 Outback/etc 2.5i. Nothing else was, or is, like it. ;)

Other than the wastegate opening (will make a vid showing the TC Lockup soon), which isn't even directly related to the CVT, the way to "sort out" the TR690, is to remove the faux shifting. I implore everyone, if you get a chance to drive a 2010-2012 Subaru Outback 2.5i with CVT (basically any H4 OB from 2010-2012 that's not mated to the manual), take the opportunity, and drive it, and see the difference.

The faux shifting is the source of 90% of the actual (not something else) Ascent CVT complaints. And, it does the crap it does, because of, still, the likes of Car & Driver, who STILL ding it, because those weird harsh oddly timed shifts we all hate, aren't harsh enough and prominent enough and frequent enough for their liking (C&D 2021 review).
 

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s
I hope so. It seems odd, but it's supposed to. Combination of varying RPMs and sliding CVT ratio.


I don't think that's the torque converter lock, but the wastegate, as I'd mentioned in some other thread as a possibility. I've been watching the lockup via ActiveOBD, and, at speed, it's always locked.


There's only ever been one transmission like the TR690HT, and that's the TR690 that preceded it in the 2010-2012 Outback/etc 2.5i. Nothing else was, or is, like it. ;)

Other than the wastegate opening (will make a vid showing the TC Lockup soon), which isn't even directly related to the CVT, the way to "sort out" the TR690, is to remove the faux shifting. I implore everyone, if you get a chance to drive a 2010-2012 Subaru Outback 2.5i with CVT (basically any H4 OB from 2010-2012 that's not mated to the manual), take the opportunity, and drive it, and see the difference.

The faux shifting is the source of 90% of the actual (not something else) Ascent CVT complaints. And, it does the crap it does, because of, still, the likes of Car & Driver, who STILL ding it, because those weird harsh oddly timed shifts we all hate, aren't harsh enough and prominent enough and frequent enough for their liking (C&D 2021 review).
With all respect Robert, I believe I can tell the difference between TC lock and the wastegate, but maybe not.

I'm visiting my GF in Western NC and I traverse the same hill several times a day, it's maybe 2%. In D, around 35 MPH I see the revs climb to 3300+ and the ratio drops lower. I tried the same hill in M, locked in 4th "gear". The TC unlocked as I would expect, but it climbed with no lugging or hesitation at around 2200.

I suspect the early TC lockup is to satisfy the EPA mileage goals, and any TPS input or load sensed by the ECM will cause it to unlock...???

I have the SAS Gold Plus to 100K, so I'm not really concerned about a failure, but I'd like to see reprogramming on the TCM to eliminate the faux shifts and the touchy TC lock/unlock.
 
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Discussion Starter · #489 ·
s


With all respect Robert, I believe I can tell the difference between TC lock and the wastegate, but maybe not.

I'm visiting my GF in Western NC and I traverse the same hill several times a day, it's maybe 2%. In D, around 35 MPH I see the revs climb to 3300+ and the ratio drops lower. I tried the same hill in M, locked in 4th "gear". The TC unlocked as I would expect, but it climbed with no lugging or hesitation at around 2200.

I suspect the early TC lockup is to satisfy the EPA mileage goals, and any TPS input or load sensed by the ECM will cause it to unlock...???

I have the SAS Gold Plus to 100K, so I'm not really concerned about a failure, but I'd like to see reprogramming on the TCM to eliminate the faux shifts and the touchy TC lock/unlock.
Again, the data shows its not the lock-up clutch. Get ActiveOBD and a compatible dongle and see for yourself.
 

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Again, the data shows its not the lock-up clutch. Get ActiveOBD and a compatible dongle and see for yourself.
Thanks, I do have the activeOBD app, I'll add TC lock% to the screen. I don't see a wastegate value, only intake pressure.
 
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Discussion Starter · #491 ·
Thanks, I do have the activeOBD app, I'll add TC lock% to the screen. I don't see a wastegate value, only intake pressure.
Yes, that one is problematic, because, there's no cheap way for us to monitor it. "TC Lock" is "Lockup %" in ActiveOBD. I suspect you'll see the standard "96%" lock at any speed above a crawl. Chances are you'll beat me to testing before I have a chance to make a video. I need to go power wash my mother's house this weekend, and catch up on some much needed maintenance on my workshop.

I'm at a loss as to what it is, if it isn't some odd wastegate flutter/opening that the ECU isn't handling smoothly. That was the only other thing "someone who is knowledgeable on the workings" could think of.

While our torque converter is new (only in the Ascent, and the 2022+ WRX that was just released), if ActiveOBD is correct, it's not the source of the stutter. Good news is, ActiveOBD was literally written for the TR690HT, and, the data points (as would be read by a Subaru Select Monitor plugged into the OBD2 port) were made public a while ago. So, chances are, the app is correct.

Rectangle Font Screenshot Parallel Number


BUT...
...this all gives me an idea. I think the COBB 87 Eco Mode tune leaves the wastegate quite open, to prevent boost. If that's the case, and it is the wastegate, then, I should not feel that stutter when running that tune. My AccessPort has been collecting dust for a couple of years - maybe it's time to do some data logging and the Eco tune for a bit.

Anyway, please let me know if you see different results than me.
 

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Yes, that one is problematic, because, there's no cheap way for us to monitor it. "TC Lock" is "Lockup %" in ActiveOBD. I suspect you'll see the standard "96%" lock at any speed above a crawl. Chances are you'll beat me to testing before I have a chance to make a video. I need to go power wash my mother's house this weekend, and catch up on some much needed maintenance on my workshop.

I'm at a loss as to what it is, if it isn't some odd wastegate flutter/opening that the ECU isn't handling smoothly. That was the only other thing "someone who is knowledgeable on the workings" could think of.

While our torque converter is new (only in the Ascent, and the 2022+ WRX that was just released), if ActiveOBD is correct, it's not the source of the stutter. Good news is, ActiveOBD was literally written for the TR690HT, and, the data points (as would be read by a Subaru Select Monitor plugged into the OBD2 port) were made public a while ago. So, chances are, the app is correct.

View attachment 16955

BUT...
...this all gives me an idea. I think the COBB 87 Eco Mode tune leaves the wastegate quite open, to prevent boost. If that's the case, and it is the wastegate, then, I should not feel that stutter when running that tune. My AccessPort has been collecting dust for a couple of years - maybe it's time to do some data logging and the Eco tune for a bit.

Anyway, please let me know if you see different results than me.
An interesting issue indeed. The Ascent TC is the most efficient (low stall) I've ever driven, and I've driven many, I can idle up my driveway grade with hardly any throttle input. My impression is that the lockup/unlock is too "touchy", and the "downshifts" too eager if that makes sense.

I'll see what the OBD app reports
 

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So when does the torque converter engage? I am feeling this low end shutter at about 5to7 mph on extremely light throttle. I would not think the turbo is coming online at this time. It feels like the converter locking up or possibly the cvt trying to shift to a high ratio quickly and causing the engine to bog down and possibly shudder. And then you push down to get it to accelerate, wow you feel the turbo then. Just way too much. I agree with the posts above, it feels confused and definitely not smooth.
 

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BUT...
...this all gives me an idea. I think the COBB 87 Eco Mode tune leaves the wastegate quite open, to prevent boost. If that's the case, and it is the wastegate, then, I should not feel that stutter when running that tune. My AccessPort has been collecting dust for a couple of years - maybe it's time to do some data logging and the Eco tune for a bit.

Anyway, please let me know if you see different results than me.
Just a thought................

I wonder how a TPS tuner would affect the trans control module's operation? Is there a tune for less sensitivity rather than more? Perhaps correct the touchy TC unlock and "downshifts"?
Just brainstorming here...........

Pedal Commander & similar are not too pricey, compared to Cobb, etc.
 

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I assume my 2022 Onyx (Sept 2021 build) has the latest and greatest hardware, programming, etc. But it seems "confused" until it reaches highway speeds. RPM goes up & down, TC in and out of lockup, etc. I've driven every type of transmission in my 60 years of driving, but this one just doesn't seem "sorted". No serious issues, just not quite right.
I plan to upgrade my 2020 to a 2023 Ascent when they figure this out. 🤞

I just blew a bunch of cash on some LP6s and we ditched the sienna for the Tesla and kept the ascent for the family hauler, so we are committed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #496 ·

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Discussion Starter · #497 ·
at about 5to7 mph on extremely light throttle. I would not think the turbo is coming online at this time
It is. It starts spooling very low so we make full torque at 2,000 rpm.
 

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Discussion Starter · #498 ·
So when does the torque converter engage?
I will share the actual specs later this weekend. I think everyone will be surprised.
 

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Other than the wastegate opening (will make a vid showing the TC Lockup soon), which isn't even directly related to the CVT, the way to "sort out" the TR690, is to remove the faux shifting. I implore everyone, if you get a chance to drive a 2010-2012 Subaru Outback 2.5i with CVT (basically any H4 OB from 2010-2012 that's not mated to the manual), take the opportunity, and drive it, and see the difference.

The faux shifting is the source of 90% of the actual (not something else) Ascent CVT complaints. And, it does the crap it does, because of, still, the likes of Car & Driver, who STILL ding it, because those weird harsh oddly timed shifts we all hate, aren't harsh enough and prominent enough and frequent enough for their liking (C&D 2021 review).
I completely agree with this. We had a 14 Outback 2.5, which was the last CVT version before they started putting in the fake shift points, and I thought it was MUCH smoother and better to drive than the Outbacks and Ascents we had from 15 onward, with the fake shift points. I didn't think the fake shift points were that bad in the 17 Outback, but with the turbo in the Ascent, it was a PITA - right as Turbo started spooling it tried to shift, came off boost, and started hunting around. Unless you had your foot pinned to the floor, or in manual mode, I hated it. In the 14 Outback, to get up to speed I would mash the throttle to get the revs up, then let off a bit to let the RPMs drop a bit (can't remember what RPM range it pulled nicely in) and then it was super smooth, at what seemed to be a good torque/hp range. I could never do that with the CVT with fake shift points.

As an ambassador, I would assume you talk to Subaru all the time. Does this ever come up? Most newer vehicles have "sport" and "eco" modes which tend to change transmission behavior, so why doesn't Subaru offer something like that? Either a knob to turn, or a menu item to choose "fake shift points" or "no shift points". This shouldn't be hard to fix, as it should be purely software programming.
 
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