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PROBLEM - 3rd row only has one LATCH anchor in a bad position

15K views 33 replies 12 participants last post by  TheLex 
#1 ·
It's totally my fault for screwing this up. I didn't think to check the position of the LATCH anchors for all seating positions before buying this thing.

We have triplet 7 yr old boys. They are now heavy and tall enough to be in booster seats with backs. So I bought them some ChicoFit booster seats with LATCH anchors. The LATCH anchors are used to secure the seat to the vehicle, as a retainer for the booster seat, NOT as a restraint for the child. Many booster seats just lay there with nothing to hold them down. So if you have an accident or come to a stop suddenly, the booster seat can become a dangerous flying projectile.

I got the boosters anchored to the 2nd row captains chairs with no issue. But the 3rd row only has ONE SINGLE set of anchors, and they are on the driver's side of the vehicle.

The PROBLEM is the anchor on the inboard side, is on the wrong side of the seatbelt latch for the driver's side passenger and the middle seat passenger. So when you hook up the LATCH, the anchor and its belt COVER and OBSTRUCT the seatbelt latches. There is no way for a child (much less an adult) to actually engage the seatbelt restraint anchor into the latch!

So what I had to do was "borrow" the seatbelt anchor on the passenger (right side) of the vehicle. This renders the entire 3rd row useless except for the one child in the booster seat. I don't even know if it's safe to belt my kid in this way!

 
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#2 ·
Would a seat belt extender help in your situation? Maybe one of the non-rigid ones so that you can snake the receptacle into a usable location?

https://www.seatbeltextenderpros.com/subaru-ascent-seat-belt-extender/

I bought the 5" rigid version to use with my daughter's second row booster seat because the belt receptacle is too low for her to reach. But the whole thing was too floppy to stand on its own, making it useless for my purpose. It actually fit perfectly in our Mazda CX-5 and does work well there, so no money wasted.

I had a booster in the third row only once and it was for a quick trip to a farm with my sister's kid in the back. My sister buckled her in so I was unaware of any weird issues.
 
#3 ·
That image looks wrong. Looks like you have the seat belt from the left side plugged into the center seat belt retainer. Most cars even use different center clips to prevent this mix up.

The booster seats use the latch to simply keep the seat from sliding out of place when the child isn’t belted in. My short daughter spent two yrs in the high back just recently the high back belt location became lower than her collar bone so backs came off the booster. My son is tall and 3yrs younger he has maybe 4 months before the high back is too short for his shoulder height.

I think your greatly over thinking the latch setup for the booster seats. Given they are only holders to keep the boosters from slipping off the seat when no kid is belted in.
 
#12 ·
My understanding - from years ago, when my daughter was in boosters - was that, to be absolutely safe, one needs to check both the booster manufacturer as well as the vehicle manufacturer to see if there are any explicit yes/no regarding seat-belt extender use with booster seats.


The original intent for the extenders were for larger adults, and there continues to be debate in the online child safety-seat community about whether or not their use is safe, regardless of what the manufacturers of either the seat or the vehicle suggests/recommends. Most CPSTs cite the change in belt geometry caused by the extender as the reason.



As a pediatrician, my wife's biggest concern for our daughter was that the seat-belt would hit her at the right spots. For children, of-course, this is what boosters are for: so that the belt is given best-odds of proper placement across the body's hard-points so as to properly effect restraint in a collision and to minimize injury (including injury caused by the belt). With that, first and foremost, I would check belt placement across your child's/children's unique body/ies - regardless of what the seat or vehicle manufacturers suggest, even if they said it was A-OK, if the belt-with-extension ends up not fitting your kid(s), I'd still not do it.


One of the best pieces of advice I read was from a CPST on the child-seat.org Forums who recommended for a parent-OP in a similar predicament as you to simply keep the booster buckled via the vehicle seat-belt, and teach their child how to pull slack into the lap portion of the belt (ELR) and wiggle under to get in and out. The only problem was if the child somehow triggered ALR...which may then require adult intervention to restore the ability for the child to pull slack.
 
#13 ·
Excellent advice. We've had multiple vehicles with child safety seats now so I'm well versed in proper belt placement. It's critical.

My hope is that the belt extender is just barely long enough to clear the LATCH obstruction, with enough slack so that my child is able to buckle up. But it can not, as you say, alter the path or pressure points of the belt.

Fortunately the booster seat has guides for the belt path. With this particular seat the across the chest and the over the lap portions of the belt must pass UNDER the arm of the safety seat. There's a yellow plastic area where the two sections of the belt are supposed to lay.

If worse comes to worse, I can always forgo the use of the LATCH mechanism and just buckle the safety belt up when the kid is not in the seat. That should be enough to keep the safety seat from flying around in the event of a sudden stop.

I've emailed Subaru about this problem, complete with photos. Let's see what they come back with. IMO this is design flaw.
 
#14 ·
It's definitely a design flaw. I'm really not sure how they let it slip - there's no way anyone with two brain cells wouldn't have realized that something was screwy with that setup. :) Maybe it was due, and they just didn't have the budget for any more changes, even one that small (and crucial)? I have little doubt that this will be changed with the next vehicle update.


I saw how your seat was mocked up in the OP and said to myself that you must be an experienced child safety seat user ;) - I tried envisioning a child in your OP setup, and I thought, well, that LOOKS weird, but I actually think it would be OK...that it looked like a proper shoulder/hip fit. The only question, then, was whether if the belt/buckle would withstand collision forces, given their unconventional mating......



Please do check back with some pix of your extension setup and also report back on what Subaru has to say, too. My child as well as extended family area all out of booster range, now, but it continues to be an area that I'm interested in, and I'm positive that your information will be invaluable to many others on the Forum!


Best of luck to you and your crew! :)
 
#15 ·
It's definitely a design flaw. I'm really not sure how they let it slip - there's no way anyone with two brain cells wouldn't have realized that something was screwy with that setup. :) Maybe it was due, and they just didn't have the budget for any more changes, even one that small (and crucial)?
I disagree with it being a design flaw.

The reason I do is simple - there are at LEAST 45 different manufacturers of children's car seats out there - probably a lot more. Now think about how many different models and variations each manufacturer might have. Let's assume (for simplicity) that each manufacturer only has 10 different models available. That's 450 different car seat layouts that an automobile design team would have to get to make the car fit the seat - when it actually should be the other way around, the seat needs to fit the car.

They did specifically design the vehicle so that the middle row could have 5 lower anchor points with the bench, and it was deliberate that the third row would only have lower anchor points on the driver side, with the other two spots only having tethers.
 
#23 ·
FWIW our old 06 Tribeca had latches in both rows that worked for 5 car seats needing latches and did not obstruct any of the belts so It's odd that the Ascent can't do the same.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Don't LATCH anchors need to be 11 inches apart or something like that? If so, that must be why the 3rd row anchors and seat belts are configured the way they are.

To elaborate, the presence of LATCH anchors means that a harnessed car seat may be installed there (where the placement of the seat belt buckle doesn't really matter). A booster may also be used also, where LATCH is not a requirment (as stated several times in this thread). The rear seat had to be be designed as a 3 passenger bench so Subaru can claim 7-8 passenger total capacity. I view the position of the LATCH anchors and seat belts to be more as limitations rather than a design flaw. It seems to be the best compromise all aound. I suppose a minivan is still best if you want a third row that can accomodate everything you throw at it.
 
#30 ·
@TSiWRX you're right. I had a manual in the garage, the rear had tethers but no latch. We never needed to run baby baby seats in the 3rd row. Just booster seats with and without backs.
 
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#31 ·
^ That's what I had in the back of the Tribeca as well. The kiddos were too big by the time the Tribeca came into our stable. :)
 
#33 ·
Third Row NOT for 3 Booster Seats

I chose the Ascent for the 7 passenger capacity with my blended family. On our first trip, we put 3 kids (6,7,8) in the third row. I never would have thought to check if 3 boosters would fit there prior to purchase. Well, they don't. And we had to juggle two boosters to work in a comfortable configuration, choosing the outside window placement for both. The 8 year old sat in between the boosters with the awkwardly (uncomfortable) placed middle belt. Why did they create it that way? There is a clip that comes from a pocket on the seat back and attaches to the roof mounted strap to keep the belt closer to the seat but for a short kid, it hits above the head. Same with the headrests. Without the booster, the headrests are either leaving a gap where the head & neck should be protected or protruding into the kid's back. Any thoughts on how to accommodate 3 kids in the rear safely and comfortably? When I rode with adults, 2 adults were just fine in the 3rd row. I don't like the middle belt in the third row.
 
#34 ·
AFAIK there's no way to get 3 child seats back there unless they're all Diono Radian RXT. I've not tried the Diono but that's one of the narrowest car seats out there. You would need to use the 5 point harness, which for 6 yr old kids and older, is just not comfortable or practical.

Alternatively you could use the MiFild seat. MiFold is essentially a seat belt repositioner. It's very good for what it is, because it really does put the seatbelt exactly in the right spot for your kid. The downside is it offers no side protection.





The narrowest booster seat I've seen mentioned is the Maxi-Cosi RodiFix Booster Car Seat. To be more specific, it's the base that is narrow. The wings stick out so there's no way you could get 3 of these in the 3rd row. I have not tested it yet, but it appears the narrow base would allow the child to at least reach over and buckle him/herself in.



You might try the Maxi-Cosi RodiFix in the 3rd row driver and passenger positions, and then a MiFoldi the center position. That way the kids on the side have some lateral protection. The middle kid likely doesn't need the lateral protection. The only issue is, do the wings of the Maxi-Cosi take way too much space from the center position?

I'm going to order the Maxi-Cosi and see if I can get it to work in the 3rd row driver's side position. When I have to drive my in-laws around when we visit Vancouver, I'll put all 3 kids in the 3rd row with the MiFolds. I had the kids in the MiFolds in the 2nd row of our pickup truck the entire summer, while we did our 6000 mile road trip. The biggest downside of the MiFold is when the kids fall asleep they can move out of ideal position.

I did write Subaru of America about that 3rd row LATCH and its awful position. I asked them about using a seatbelt anchor latch extender. The answer was basically no, it's not been tested so it's not proven safe.

Here's what was said:

"Thank you for contacting Subaru of America, Inc. We appreciate the opportunity to be of assistance.

The seatbelt should not be buckled into another buckle for a different seating position. There are some child restraints that may not correctly fit or be properly restrained in the third-row seats because they are narrower. I, personally, have placed a booster seat in the third row of my vehicle without using the LATCH as use of the anchors are optional with my seat. You may want to refer to the instruction manual for your specific child restraint to review the LATCH requirement. I have also been able to pull the seatbelt buckle forward a bit and fit the belt from the child restraint behind that buckle. Unfortunately, outside of these recommendations, there is no other solution we can provide.

I will document this concern in our database for consideration by our Product Development department when developing future models. If you have any additional questions, please feel free to contact us again.

Sincerely,

Subaru of America, Inc.
Customer/Retailer Services Department
1-800-SUBARU3 (1-800-782-2783)"



I also wrote the Child Passenger Protection adviser at CSAA (my ins co) and this was the reply:

"Thank you for reaching out! Subaru allows the use of lower anchors to be used for securing a belt positioning booster as long as it does not interfere with the seat belt. It is sounding like it does so when your son in not using the booster you can use the seat belt buckled as if it was being used by him to keep the booster from becoming a projectile when not being used. As far as the seat belt extender, they are not advisable to use with a booster seat as they cause the seat belt to be positioned in a different position on the child. However, if the manual for the booster seat AND the vehicle manual say it's allowable then it is fine. The two have to agree with each other. If you are not able to find it in either or in only one, then do not use the extender. The MiFold is definitely an option you can go with as it does serve the purpose of positioning the seat belt correctly. Please let me know if you have any further questions. Thank you so much."
 
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