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UTQG is problematic - but perhaps most problematic in that the buyer should not use it to compare tires across different brands/makes:

UTQG: Is it the Beginning of the End for the Regs No One Wanted? - this article dates back to 2002, but it's still valid today.

If you want to use it as a reference, keep in mind that it's only valid within that particular make's other offerings.
It is important to understand what the numbers and letters mean, but they are standardized if nothing else. So they are valid in comparing tires across different makes/models as long as you take the time to understand what the ratings mean.

As for Road Hazard at the time of purchase, it is not an automatic coverage although maybe it should be for what little cost it would add to the deal. If you were to take a new car to Discount tire they may offer to sell you certificates for the tires in case of a road hazard incident, they have offered them to me for tires I did not purchase from them directly.
 

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It is important to understand what the numbers and letters mean, but they are standardized if nothing else. So they are valid in comparing tires across different makes/models as long as you take the time to understand what the ratings mean.
* highlighted for emphasis

No, as written in the link that I cited, UTQG, particularly in terms of the wear rating numbers, is NOT intended to be a valid comparison across different makes/brands, as you both repeated above as well as in your original post (Nail in tire = 4 new tires, in which you drew the comparison between the OE Falkens' 360 wear rating and your current Continentals' 740).

That was one focus of the cited article: to highlight that the UTQG Treadwear rating is not comparable across brands/makes - and instead is only valid within a specific brand/make , across its internal model-lines.

As quoted from the article I cited by TireReview (UTQG: Is it the Beginning of the End for the Regs No One Wanted? - which is an industry resource and not a consumer review site) -

TireReview article - UTQG: Is it the Beginning of the End for the Regs No One Wanted? said:
...Still another tire company questions the legitimacy of the grades. "There has been no uniform application of the regulation across different manufacturers’ products. While tires will likely achieve their stated grades, they will be labeled according to the position of that product in a particular manufacturer’s line.

...Treadwear – a tire’s expected service life – is probably a consumer’s most critical concern. Yet it is the one aspect of UTQG that comes under the most fire. Tiremakers themselves are expected to conduct all UTQG testing and assign grades. And while there is well-established test criteria, there is little or no government monitoring.

These factors have led to a hodge-podge of contradictory results. For example: One tiremaker’s 400 treadwear grade earns only a 40,000-mile warranty, while another’s 400-level tire carries a 60,000-mile warranty.

...What Is UTQG Exactly?

UTQG grades, rather, are supposed to give consumers a way to compare models from the same manufacturer – the good to the better to the best.

According to NHTSA’s Web site, UTQG’s “treadwear grade is a comparative rating based on the wear rate of the tire when tested under controlled conditions on a specified government test course. For example: a tire graded 150 would wear one and a half times as well on the government course as a tire graded 100.”
^ You'll want to fully expand this window, to read the clarifications given by the author.

If that's not enough, the following is from TireRack (https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=48) -

TireRack Tire-Tech article - WHAT ARE THE UNIFORM TIRE QUALITY GRADE (UTQG) STANDARDS? said:
...As a result, it is generally only somewhat helpful to compare Treadwear grades on tires from the same manufacturer, and we don’t recommend comparing grades between different brands.
Finally, as they are a Forum Sponsor, info. from Discount Tire Direct (Discount Tire | Tires and Wheels for Sale | Online & In-Person) -

Discount Tire Direct Tips & Guides said:
Given numerically, treadwear scores are determined by tire wear in closely controlled driving conditions made in comparison to a reference tire given a 100. A tire that scores a 400 in treadwear should last twice as long as a tire with a 200.

A comparable tire, made by a different manufacturer, may be given a score of 300.To reiterate; the scores for a comparable tire may vary from brand to brand. It is important, then, to only compare tire scores within a given brand. Actual treadwear may vary based on real-world use. Driving habits, proper air pressure, road conditions, and even climate can affect tread life.


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As for Road Hazard at the time of purchase, it is not an automatic coverage although maybe it should be for what little cost it would add to the deal. If you were to take a new car to Discount tire they may offer to sell you certificates for the tires in case of a road hazard incident, they have offered them to me for tires I did not purchase from them directly.
^ I think you're replying to someone else with this one, so I'll bow-out, here. :giggle:
 

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I thought I covered all that with this part of my post, but I guess pedantism is a part of internet life, lol.
^ As a Subaru Ambassador, your opinions and advice carries a lot of weight within the community.

In that what you stated in your posts is clearly wrong (i.e. comparison the UTQG treadwear rating from the OE Falken to your current Continental tires), I would expect that you would take responsibility for the mistake, rather than to insult me for providing correction.

I hope the site admin/moderators as well as other Subaru Ambassadors take note of your behavior in this instance.

As a fellow Subaru enthusiast, I try my best to provide correct information to my fellow enthusiasts, and to also admit when I myself am wrong.

As explained by the reputable sources that I cited, UTQG treadwear numbers should not be used to cross-compare between brands.
 

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^ As a Subaru Ambassador, your opinions and advice carries a lot of weight within the community.

In that what you stated in your posts is clearly wrong (i.e. comparison the UTQG treadwear rating from the OE Falken to your current Continental tires), I would expect that you would take responsibility for the mistake, rather than to insult me for providing correction.

I hope the site admin/moderators as well as other Subaru Ambassadors take note of your behavior in this instance.

As a fellow Subaru enthusiast, I try my best to provide correct information to my fellow enthusiasts, and to also admit when I myself am wrong.

As explained by the reputable sources that I cited, UTQG treadwear numbers should not be used to cross-compare between brands.
So I will explain what I mean to clear this up. Your sources and my understanding of the rating system both show correlation between mileage rating and warranty rating, although even within the same brand that varies, (ie. Yokohama has 2 different model tires with the same wear rating but different warranties, 740AA rating on both, 60k mile warranty on one 65k mile warranty on another). But in every instance a 600+ ish wear rating tire is going to vastly outlast the stock 360 rated tire...so when I look at the oem tire with no mileage warranty at least not from DT and I compare that to say the Geolandar or the Crosscontact I bought I can't compare mileage warranty but I can look at the wear rating and roughly estimate the tire will last around twice as long with a 740 rating compared to the 360 rating.

This is what I mean when I say they can be used to make comparisons. If there is correlation within the brand (mileage warranty divided by wear rating), that correlation can be used to compare any brand, unless there is no correlation in which case you can't even compare the tires within the same brand. I hope that makes sense.
 

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^ Thank you for that explanation - I understand what you mean, and where you're coming from. It isn't without its own logic, which I also agree with.

However, according to all professional sources in the tire industry, UTQG simply should -NOT- be used as a point of cross-comparison between brands. This caution is clearly and plainly stated, and is done so with startling consistency, across the board. This is an industry recommendation that I cannot simply gloss-over: to suggest that we can overlook it and use our own correlation as substitute, particularly with the variability in data (i.e. that oftentimes those numbers are not reported accurately, even for something as flippant as marketing).

To-wit, the Michelin Pilot Super Sport is a "300" UTQG tire, too - and while the occasional reports of these tires making it well beyond the 20K miles (to even 30K miles) mark (at-wear-bar) do come up, most drivers see somewhere around half that. We can't even really compare our OE-Falkens to these tires, can we? ;) Even in terms of fitment/vehicles-fitted-to.

I get it: the question is "how do we compare tires without treadwear warranties to those that do," when we talk to non-enthusiasts. Your correlative method isn't without its logic or merits - but at the same time, it is also deeply flawed, with its inherent shortcoming rooted in those considerations that I highlighted in the articles from tire industry sources.

Can we use the UTQG wear rating as a quick and dirty between brands? While I am tempted to say "yes," via your correlative method, the problems that correlation bring is precisely why the industry sources tell us to simply look at manufacturer treadwear warranties instead.
 

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the problems that correlation bring is precisely why the industry sources tell us to simply look at manufacturer treadwear warranties instead.
It's been a while since I've read or used a treadwear warranty, but, whether you buy a 50k or 60k warranty tire is closely related to the cost of the tire. In a sense, the higher warranty tires come with a higher "fully depreciated" proration value. I think of treadwear warranties as prepaid treadwear insurance. In reality I've only used the tire warranties to replace a tire damaged early in its lifecycle. When I've replaced well-worn tires I've always changed brands so the remaining warranty was moot.
 

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@TSiWRX marketing has made a mess of a lot of things that should be simple, test a tire for 1000 miles and report your findings in a uniform way instead we get what we got.

My tire buying decision is usually based first on wet traction, then dry traction then wear rating/mileage warranty, and last but not least reviews especially reviews from other Subaru owners. I have found for how little I drive I just need something decently long lasting but with all the rain we get I need traction ( Manual-Turbo etc). So I got an "A" wet rated and a "AA" dry rated tire with about 50k miles of life...realistically I will get 30k miles out of them. Because almost all of my driving is city, and spirited...so

Now on the other side of the reviews I like to look at performance at the end of tire's age as the longer lasting tires I have used (70k mile warranty) have been horrid in the rain after about half of the tread is gone...Yokohama I'm looking at you, lol.

@Titanrx8 hits on a very valid point prorated warranties don't amount to much in many cases. Especially with the needs of the AWD system, I've had to buy 2 new sets of tires because of road hazards, and also because DT no longer carried their Yokohama model tire due to an update in the model. My compromise was to use a readily available tire from Pirelli and hope for the best, if there was another damaged tire.

To me the average consumer isn't going to be concerned with whether a tire is rated at 640 or 720 or 860, but to look at say the OEM tires at $220 vs a 60-70k mile tire for $250-270 and try to understand why the cost difference is so high...to me that is where the understanding of the rating lies. Whether a brand tests a tire for 887 miles or 1011 miles isn't enough of a factor IMO to the average consumer.

If it were me selling the tires I would always go with the safety stuff first, but that is me.
 

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I try to keep things simple...I shoot for a tire that has a 60-75K mile or so "wear warranty" and hope/expect to get 50K miles. Pursuing a wear warranty claim isn't necessarily the easiest anyway, so stacking the cards in favor of a longer wear expectation tire makes for a reasonable compromise.
 
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If it were me selling the tires I would always go with the safety stuff first, but that is me.
I'm similar in my criteria. Wet traction first, dry traction second then noise, then handling (SUV parameters, different for my performance cars). For performance cars, it goes handling, dry braking, wet braking and noise and tread wear aren't on the list.
shoot for a tire that has a 60-75K mile or so "wear warranty" and hope/expect to get 50K miles.
Between the low miles I've been putting on due to company car at my disposal for many years and living in Florida heat and UV, my tires get replaced at 5 years regardless of wear or warrantees.
 

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@TSiWRX marketing has made a mess of a lot of things that should be simple, test a tire for 1000 miles and report your findings in a uniform way instead we get what we got.
To me, it's interesting that the complaints against UTQG goes back so far. That Tire Review article dates back twenty years ago, and yet, we're still stuck.

My tire buying decision is usually based first on wet traction, then dry traction then wear rating/mileage warranty, and last but not least reviews especially reviews from other Subaru owners. I have found for how little I drive I just need something decently long lasting but with all the rain we get I need traction ( Manual-Turbo etc). So I got an "A" wet rated and a "AA" dry rated tire with about 50k miles of life...realistically I will get 30k miles out of them. Because almost all of my driving is city, and spirited...so
I tend to trust enthusiast-community (various publications) and motoring "association"/club (such as the ADAC) reviews a bit more than those from fellow consumers. The problem with "crowdsourcing" tire reviews I've found, is that so many times "average folks" online will simply parrot what they have read or heard elsewhere. For example, when the first-iteration Michelin X-Ice Xi2 was introduced back in the early oughts, the Tire Rack customer reviews page was awash with negative reviews of this tire, with folks saying things like "this is the worst winter tire I've ever used" - but fast-forward just a few weeks until after the professional reviews and testing results came out, when it was shown conclusively that the tire performed so much better than their competition....those same customer reviews flipped overnight. :ROFLMAO:

The truth is that the vast majority of us -myself included- simply do not have the skills, perception, or even simply the types of conditions necessary to truly "test" tires: and what we each "feel" is as much limited to our own perceptions (which are often inaccurate and biased) as it is anything else actually objective. I've been fortunate enough to have been driven by professional test-drivers as they demonstrated the true capabilities and traits/characteristics (which specific vehicle manufacturers can ask their tire supplier to tune for) of very, very high performant tires, as well as having taken part in some very simple -but instrumented- testing of the same. I can say with certainty that almost all drivers (again myself included) will -NOT- be routinely approaching such limits...or even coming anywhere close.
 

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my tires get replaced at 5 years regardless of wear or warrantees.
That's appropriate and pretty much "to spec". Tires do "expire".
 
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technicality road hazard covered by your insurance policy unless they have specific exclusion for tires..
so it maybe just a question of your deductible..
 

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technicality road hazard covered by your insurance policy unless they have specific exclusion for tires..
so it maybe just a question of your deductible..
Technically it is a collision coverage, but in practice it would be more costly, especially come renewal time...having a zero deductible would be costly in and of itself.
 

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Technically it is a collision coverage, but in practice it would be more costly, especially come renewal time...having a zero deductible would be costly in and of itself.
it's quite unlikely you'll see an increase in your car insurance costs. because of a non-fault claim.
also some stares don't allow insurance companies to increase rates after a non-fault claim.
you can just call your insurance and ask
 

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I go to Discount Tire. A couple hundred cheaper than the dealer for sure. As far as the tire no being able to be repaired, who knows. Nails usually don't make big holes that can't be repaired. Could they see $$$. Whatever the case, it's up to you.
 

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Subaru does indeed only allow 2/32 difference between tread depths on all 4 tires. I can't comment on the pricing you received, however, I can say if it were me I may have put a plug in it and let it ride to the next set of tires. I did buy my last set from the dealer, but only because 1. the price was cheaper than anywhere else and 2. road hazard is included for 2 years. I haven't had to use the road hazard yet so if it turns out to be a pain then I would recommend shopping elsewhere. I normally use Discount Tire.
I has a similar experience with my Subaru dealer. January of this year I took my 21 Ascent ltd in for a nail in the tire. They replaced the tire as the nail was in the shoulder of the tire. I had 14,000 miles on the car. Yesterday I had another nail in a different tire. 17450 miles on the car. They said the because the tire has 2/32 left they needed to replace all the tires. When I mentioned the newer tire on the car they then said I could replace the 3 worn ones keeping the newer tire. I used a tire gage and verified that the three older tires all had 2/32 left and the newer tire had 7/32.
pricing on the tires are comparable to what tire companies are selling the tires for.
 

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I can't say this as a blanket statement, but in my case when I put new tires on my Outback ~1 year ago, the road hazard only covers the damaged tire. So you're still footing the bill for the other 3 if you need to replace all. IMO that "insurance" costs way too much for the out of pocket expense I'd still need to cover. If there was a road hazard policy for ~%20 more that covered all tires, I might go for it.
Gf's 2018 Outback came with Bridgestones, which wore out almost exactly as predicted in rating, at 37K. They were replaced with Goodyear Assurance Comfort which has an excellent rating on Tire Rack in every category (ride, handling, quiet, wet and dry braking, etc) and is rated for 60K. Bridgestones were all worn evenly due to proper inflation and rotation, but OEMs, and not long life.
 

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Gf's 2018 Outback came with Bridgestones, which wore out almost exactly as predicted in rating, at 37K. They were replaced with Goodyear Assurance Comfort which has an excellent rating on Tire Rack in every category (ride, handling, quiet, wet and dry braking, etc) and is rated for 60K. Bridgestones were all worn evenly due to proper inflation and rotation, but OEMs, and not long life.
Put the weather ready version on both OBs we've owned, and the oem Bridgestones lasted about the same as your GFs in both cases too. Much happier with the Goodyears and they will definitely be on the short list for the Ascent when the time comes.
 

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I has a similar experience with my Subaru dealer. January of this year I took my 21 Ascent ltd in for a nail in the tire. They replaced the tire as the nail was in the shoulder of the tire. I had 14,000 miles on the car. Yesterday I had another nail in a different tire. 17450 miles on the car. They said the because the tire has 2/32 left they needed to replace all the tires. When I mentioned the newer tire on the car they then said I could replace the 3 worn ones keeping the newer tire. I used a tire gage and verified that the three older tires all had 2/32 left and the newer tire had 7/32.
pricing on the tires are comparable to what tire companies are selling the tires for.
The difference in tread depth between any of the tires on the ascent should be 2/32 or less. I would question the replacement of single tire anytime you have significant mileage on the current set. The damage to the AWD system may not be apparent in the now but could shorten the lifespan of the transfer clutch in the distant future.
 
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