[packout]

And the saga continues. They got and approved the revised estimate on August 29th. As of August 30th, at 2:47pm, a full day later, it was still approved and showing such in the claims status.

View attachment 18165




THEN I called to discuss diminished value claims. THEN they deleted the notifications and changed the claim status to "TOTAL LOSS" and are now acting like they hadn't already approved it.

As i noted. They have only one in mind and it is not their customer. Now they can see the real cost of making you whole. This is why they try and push the claim through quickly. Trust us, easy - we will take care of all the details. Oops. you want the real value of your loss; sorry no go now.

As I recall you determined the market value of your car is about $29,000 and the repair to be about $10,000. Did you get a rough estimate for diminished value? I am not sure if you have any leverage to make them repair and pay for DV. I doubt it, but I will try and find out later this week.

Now remember, if there is a total loss, they will cut you a check, but you will be on your own at that point to find the replacement or order one (as you know a 2.5 month wait), but they do not have to rent you a car until your car comes in. I suggest you do significant market research in your area to determine the value of your car, its condition etc. They will try and wear you down, they will try and convince you their low valuation is substantiated by some market research company (that does business only with insurance companies). Do you own research and document it all. When it happened to me, I was able to get thousands more to the value they offered even after they increased their offer twice.

You can ask Petty to value your car as well. Make sure the condition is clearly known to him for an accurate value.

 

[Jim_in_PA]

I"m guessing this also means you need to make a field trip to get all your stuff and mods, etc...sheesh...

 

[Robert.Mauro]

As i noted. They have only one in mind and it is not their customer. Now they can see the real cost of making you whole. This is why they try and push the claim through quickly. Trust us, easy - we will take care of all the details. Oops. you want the real value of your loss; sorry no go now.

As I recall you determined the market value of your car is about $29,000 and the repair to be about $10,000. Did you get a rough estimate for diminished value? I am not sure if you have any leverage to make them repair and pay for DV. I doubt it, but I will try and find out later this week.

Now remember, if there is a total loss, they will cut you a check, but you will be on your own at that point to find the replacement or order one (as you know a 2.5 month wait), but they do not have to rent you a car until your car comes in. I suggest you do significant market research in your area to determine the value of your car, its condition etc. They will try and wear you down, they will try and convince you their low valuation is substantiated by some market research company (that does business only with insurance companies). Do you own research and document it all. When it happened to me, I was able to get thousands more to the value they offered even after they increased their offer twice.

You can ask Petty to value your car as well. Make sure the condition is clearly known to him for an accurate value.

I'm sending them nearly $7,000 in accessories (both from the factory order, and between purchase and insuring it with them).

 

[columnshift]

Lets just say, State Farm is not different then many insurers. I had them for many years without incident, until they did not play nice with a total claim I submitted. My years of loyalty meant nothing. they worked very hard to sweat me out to pay very little for my total loss.

I learned from that experience which led me to know how to research, document loss, determine value and work with their contractual obligations. Even my current insurer who I have had for about 16 years played hardball recently and continues a bit now. The difference is that I know how to play hard myself. I was able to get many thousands more for a recent total loss through my own research and documentation, I gained the upper hand. A current claim for my son's car has the adjuster complaining of the collision shop we chose because they know their reputation for being meticulous. The adjuster has been trying desperately to get me to agree on a settlement prematurely. Guess what, it aint happening! The adjuster thinks he creates painting standards. Not true. The auto painting industry creates the standards, not the insurance industry (despite their assertion of insurance practice). Oh, by the way, yes I have documentation that the car was custom wrapped, and yes is was also ceramic coated, which I also have documentation of. That wrap, yes, is isn't cheap and their are only two certified wrap installers for that product in the area. No we are not simply going to cover up frame damage. Sorry, it is not happening that way.

The adjuster wanted to view the vehicle in person and look underneath. I said, have at it and good luck since my son dropped the vehicle. I do not think the adjuster could even fit a mirror underneath (WRX) - but your are free to try.

perhaps you can give us pointers bullet points how not to be screwed

 

[packout]

insuring it with them

insuring it with them ? not sure what this is referring to.

I get your value is higher due to accessories. Determining the current market value will be the tricky part since identifying comparisons are slim. The other party being represented by State Farm will be telling you those accessories do not add much value to the vehicle, particularly those that are from 2019. You will have to take the time to find the comps and maybe your friendly dealers can assist. Heck your car should be worth a few thousand more just for historical reasons .


New York Total Loss Threshold

State	New York
Rule	75%
Law	15 NYCRR § 20.20(c)(ii)

New York Insurance Law Section 2601 - Unfair Claim Settlement Practices; Penalties

Laws Article 26, Unfair Claim Settlement Practices; Other Misconduct; Discrimination; Section 2601, Unfair Claim Settlement Practices; Penalties. Refreshed: 2018-06-06

newyork.public.law

Settlements of Total Loss Motor Vehicle Damage Claims

The Office of General Counsel issued the following informal opinion on October 9, 2001, representing the position of the New York State Insurance Department. Re: Settlements of Total Loss Motor Vehicle Damage Claims Questions Presented: 1. Are the provisions set forth in N.Y. Comp. Codes R. &...

dfs.ny.gov

Remember the responsible party is the other driver, your policy nor theirs control making you whole. You will have do prove any higher value.


copy all the comps that you can find that come close to your car. You probably will need help in determining how much to adjust your value up or down from the comps depending on the differences (it is somewhat of an art form which is why I am encouraging you to contact Petty. Petty can do alot of this work for you for free at first and if you need them to represent you for a few hundred dollars. The insurance company will low ball the value of your car's additions and value your condition as low because of some dirt on the floor. You can leverage your service records (work from dealer and yourself).

Hopefully you have alternative transportation until this is settled, because they will try and limit your options to add pressure to you to settle for less than it is worth.

 

[RobertD]

I have not been checking the forums for a while due to life happening as you know. Sorry to see your saga and hope it all turns out well for you. Sounds like the DV claim put it over the edge.

FYI Liberty has a nice 2019 Ascent touring with 95K miles. Good Texas car.

 

[Robert.Mauro]

insuring it with them ? not sure what this is referring to.

I had Geico before them (or Progressive?). I'm trying to say that every single accessory I want as a part of the value was either (a) in the factory order, or (b) installed by me or others before they became my insurance company and noted on the initial vehicle inspection report.

In other words, I want them to fix both the value used for determining loss, and the value used for loss payout.

 

[CosmoK]

The insurance company is going to fight theirs, so, there is that. But at top of the range, my car is worth $24-25K, thanks to 92,185 miles and some trail striping.

If I ever started doing this to make money, it'd probably be wise to make whatever car into a corporate car.

No doubt the high mileage is going to be their main argument for whatever number they come up with for the total loss. And more than likely a number you won't be happy with. But then again, you never know, given these crazy times & prices we see now.
It's a shame they now reversed course on their original call for repair, but as we all know, the bottom line is settling this with the least amount of payout from them. Bottom line, that's business.
Anyway, despite the reversal from SF, good luck in hopefully getting it resolved to your satisfaction.

 

[Robert.Mauro]

No doubt the high mileage is going to be their main argument for whatever number they come up with for the total loss. And more than likely a number you won't be happy with. But then again, you never know, given these crazy times & prices we see now.
It's a shame they now reversed course on their original call for repair, but as we all know, the bottom line is settling this with the least amount of payout from them. Bottom line, that's business.
Anyway, despite the reversal from SF, good luck in hopefully getting it resolved to your satisfaction.

They've been made aware that it will be more costly for them to total it, since I will file every legally allowed claim reimbursement permitted by regulations, including for each and every paid vacation day I am burning to pick up my stuff, as well as for one canceled project that required the car, and additional ones upcoming, and the two events it didn't make, thanks to their 100% at fault insured.

They're suddenly reconsidering.

 

[Robert.Mauro]

I have not been checking the forums for a while due to life happening as you know. Sorry to see your saga and hope it all turns out well for you. Sounds like the DV claim put it over the edge.

FYI Liberty has a nice 2019 Ascent touring with 95K miles. Good Texas car.

Thanks to the wonderful people like Dan at @Liberty Subaru, that may become my backup plan. Going to call the bank in the morning, and see if they can do a loan mod to swap vehicles on the loan - and failing that, Tom Portee (that wonderful Finance Manager who rightly has a five star customer rating; even when most auto finance people are usually loathed, lol!) may be able to figure something out.

 

[packout]

I had Geico before them (or Progressive?). I'm trying to say that every single accessory I want as a part of the value was either (a) in the factory order, or (b) installed by me or others before they became my insurance company and noted on the initial vehicle inspection report.

In other words, I want them to fix both the value used for determining loss, and the value used for loss payout.

It is great that you have clear documentation of the improvemens made to the vehicle pre accident. The challenge is to value them at the time a momwnt pre accident. Do they depreciate? If so how much? What is the market basis research for that determination?

 

[Robert.Mauro]

It is great that you have clear documentation of the improvemens made to the vehicle pre accident. The challenge is to value them at the time a momwnt pre accident. Do they depreciate? If so how much? What is the market basis research for that determination?

CCC One Market Valuation Report. The numbers seem fair - except of course for the items they didn't include.

The problem, of course, are the thousands of dollars of factory order accessories they did not include - not to mention some of my upgrades.

 

[packout]

It is great that you have clear documentation of the improvemens made to the vehicle pre accident. The challenge is to value them at the time a momwnt pre accident. Do they depreciate? If so how much? What is the market basis research for that determination?

You might recall in a prior post before your accident I mentioned CCC, and not in a good way. I have multiple experiences with them being used as the instance company lap dog. See what Petty says about them. They have gone up agsinst them as well. What is a CCC report?

CCC uses low valued comps from wherever and ignores the higher value ones. They typically will ignore the accessories that in fact add value and or minimuze their value. I went up against CCC valuation and won. Petty has as well, but it takes research, effort and persistance.

 

[Robert.Mauro]

You might recall in a prior post before your accident I mentioned CCC, and not in a good way. I have multiple experiences with them being used as the instance company lap dog. See what Petty says about them. They have gone up agsinst them as well. What is a CCC report?

CCC uses low valued comps from wherever and ignores the higher value ones. They typically will ignore the accessories that in fact add value and or minimuze their value. I went up against CCC valuation and won. Petty has as well, but it takes research, effort and persistance.

They're switching to another evaluator. And, failing that, I will get my own done. I sent them the original order with all the things they missed.

 

[packout]

They're switching to another evaluator. And, failing that, I will get my own done. I sent them the original order with all the things they missed.

their plan B. The first adjuster conveniently does not notice all the factory order accessories despite having access to all the records. Bad adjuster.. State Farm comes back and blames the adjuster and now you get the adjuster who will capture everything but low ball the value. I suggest you complete your own valuation now so you can determine when they come back with theirs, how far off they are. I also encourage ALL communication be via email. Insurance companies are legally obligated to act responsibly to the claim. this is why they use CCC. they like pointing to this professional valuation, as if they are not doing the insurance companies bidding. Take a loo at the past law suits involving CCC. The fact of the matter is, as I have noted, the other insured is responsible to you. State Farm is responsible to them per contract.

If they low ball you, and you have good documentation indicating the value is higher, you can communicate with the other insured helping them understand that you are prepared to take them to court for the difference. In the meanwhile, State Farm is obligated to send you a check for the lower amount while you continue to dispute the difference. The insured will not like this and probably insist that you deal with State Farm. They do not want to go to court and will turn and complain to State Farm to take care of you.

Many years ago I had to take someone to court for an auto claim. A 85+ old woman who was 100% responsible for the accident. Her insurance company was low balling me. Her family was helping her but did not understand the contractual obligations and process. They were believing their insurance company. Trust me, I did not want to drag her into court, but they left me with little choice. She showed up with her family and the auto insurance attorney. I came with good documentation and won my case.

Something I just thought of - You can use this forum as well as the Outback forum to document the added value and interest of many of your add-ons. You will not necessarily be able to use this data to document the dollar value, but rather the significant interest. Leverage this interest along with market data to demonstrate the value.

 

[denissh]

CCC One Market Valuation Report. The numbers seem fair - except of course for the items they didn't include.

The problem, of course, are the thousands of dollars of factory order accessories they did not include - not to mention some of my upgrades.
View attachment 18176

factory order accessories or upgrades they did not include ... you can just take them off... they cant stop you,
only problem if you take wheels off you have to put some other wheels back etc...

 

[packout]

factory order accessories or upgrades they did not include ... you can just take them off... they cant stop you,
only problem if you take wheels off you have to put some other wheels back etc...

I would like to think that most accessories whether factory installed or self installed retain their value if the retail price has no changed much. After all scratches on a primitive skid plate does not reduce its value in my opinion. The custom lift IMO would increase value. clearly not all Subaru Ascent owners are adventurers, so the market is narrower, but that in itself doesn't reduce its value to those who are looking for this type of vehicle. In addition, it has credentials and video to prove it.

 

[Robert.Mauro]

their plan B. The first adjuster conveniently does not notice all the factory order accessories despite having access to all the records. Bad adjuster.. State Farm comes back and blames the adjuster and now you get the adjuster who will capture everything but low ball the value. I suggest you complete your own valuation now so you can determine when they come back with theirs, how far off they are. I also encourage ALL communication be via email. Insurance companies are legally obligated to act responsibly to the claim. this is why they use CCC. they like pointing to this professional valuation, as if they are not doing the insurance companies bidding. Take a loo at the past law suits involving CCC. The fact of the matter is, as I have noted, the other insured is responsible to you. State Farm is responsible to them per contract.

If they low ball you, and you have good documentation indicating the value is higher, you can communicate with the other insured helping them understand that you are prepared to take them to court for the difference. In the meanwhile, State Farm is obligated to send you a check for the lower amount while you continue to dispute the difference. The insured will not like this and probably insist that you deal with State Farm. They do not want to go to court and will turn and complain to State Farm to take care of you.

Many years ago I had to take someone to court for an auto claim. A 85+ old woman who was 100% responsible for the accident. Her insurance company was low balling me. Her family was helping her but did not understand the contractual obligations and process. They were believing their insurance company. Trust me, I did not want to drag her into court, but they left me with little choice. She showed up with her family and the auto insurance attorney. I came with good documentation and won my case.

Something I just thought of - You can use this forum as well as the Outback forum to document the added value and interest of many of your add-ons. You will not necessarily be able to use this data to document the dollar value, but rather the significant interest. Leverage this interest along with market data to demonstrate the value.

They're being really weird (in a good way) since my Facebook post tagging them. Including telling me they're gladly willing to pay for my vacation days I am burning to pick up my personal belongings. Just got another call a couple hours ago, where they want a full list of everything extra, to make sure nothing is missed, and will go with the higher of all valuations.

 

[packout]

They're being really weird (in a good way) since my Facebook post tagging them. Including telling me they're gladly willing to pay for my vacation days I am burning to pick up my personal belongings. Just got another call a couple hours ago, where they want a full list of everything extra, to make sure nothing is missed, and will go with the higher of all valuations.

the higher of whose valuations? The first adjuster completely missed items. I do not recall you stating they provided any valuations which included all items, so I am not clear what valuations they are comparing.

Any phone call transmitted commitments on their part should be immortalized in an email from you to them as a summary of their statements.

I think they realize that you can bring lots of uncomfortable publicity to them.

 

[Robert.Mauro]

the higher of whose valuations? The first adjuster completely missed items. I do not recall you stating they provided any valuations which included all items, so I am not clear what valuations they are comparing.

Any phone call transmitted commitments on their part should be immortalized in an email from you to them as a summary of their statements.

I think they realize that you can bring lots of uncomfortable publicity to them.

I've recorded all of the last few days worth of calls, and let them know. I've been given the option to transport the car to any shop or adjuster of my choice (initially at my own expense, unless the value (ACV) ends up being greater). So, that option is on the table.

CCC's evaluation, dollar wise, was surprisingly spot on, for the items they listed.