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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Be very careful with any modifications including installing a lift kit, as it may void the warranty. In fact the Eyesight system will not be able to be properly calibrated with a lift installed.
 

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To me that reads as if they may not cover a warranty item when the odometer reads 35990 and you have oversize tires resulting in a slight odometer discrepancy. Even so it only says modifications COULD affect warranty coverage, not that it’s voided.
 

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They cannot void the warranty on the entire vehicle based upon a single modification. If failure to a component may be caused by your modification, then they reserve the right to deny warranty coverage to said failed component. If you modify your suspension, your engine should still be covered but not suspension components or possibly drive line components if the angle of the drive shaft has changed significantly. At least this is how I understand it. There actually is a law in place for manufactures regarding this, I just don't know the fine details.

I have a small manufacturing business that uses a fair amount of electronics and sensors. If our factory, tested, wiring is altered in our system and a component connected to this modification fails, we are not obligated to cover it under warranty. However if there is a modification to only 1 harness and the other circuits are left alone, everything on the other circuits we are required to cover under our documented warranty.
 

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There was a ruling 2 decades ago or so that the MFGs cannot void a warranty for an aftermarket part unless it directly caused the malfunction. So a lift kit wouldn't void an engine warranty, and exhaust system wouldn't void steering problems, etc.

This sounds more like a CYA statement.
 
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This letter cracks me up, especially the part the about the EyeSight system. Now, I understand how they want to reign in the behavior of dealers: Not putting STi rims that aren't load rated for the Ascent, or changing leather, etc. This can be a safety issue for sure.

With regards to Eyesight, and its ability to work, I think the statement made is a borderline lie. Looking at the FSM and the Eyesight section, it shows how to properly calibrate the EyeSight. You should read it. It talks about some setup conditions such as distances, lighting, etc. I found it interesting that it also speaks to loads in the vehicle. Do you know what load was calculated for your vehicle? How much gas was in it, etc. Technically speaking, it is possible EyeSight is "off" as soon as I sit in the vehicle!!! It also states that ANYTHING in the stay out area is bad. I guess as soon as a bug splat comes my calibration is off. How much off? who knows....but let's segue into lifts.

It doesn't take a genius to know that any of these changes to wheel/tires, or suspension height will have affect the EyeSight, but by just how much is the question. To calibrate the "uncalibratable" EyeSight, it looks at chart that is setup to a reference point distance of 4000mm away from the front axle, and at a height of 1000mm off the ground. I don't feel like taking a tape measure out to my car right now, but I know that the EyeSIght cameras do not sit at 6'7" (2000mm) from the ground, but that doesn't matter to me as the horizontal distance is the same for these next calcualtions. So for a 1000mm height of the cameras to the focal point on the RANDOM CHART, the degree angle is all of 14.03, if you increase that height by 50mm (~ 2") the angle increases by .68 degrees to 14.71. So, a 2" lift could raise the camera angle by .68 degrees! Is that a concern to you? If so, go recalibrate the EyeSight. They even talk about adding washers to the cameras to help with the axis angles of the cameras.

I guess my point is, if you want to do a lift, recognize that EyeSight WILL be affected (by how much? is it still acceptable?). You can leave as is if you feel safe, or you can TRY to get it changed into a more acceptable range by possibly playing with the setup positioning of the RANDOM CHART. However, if the calibration is so strict that 4000mm means 4000mm without a +-, and 1000mm without any +-, you may be stuck with what you have.
 

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There was a ruling 2 decades ago or so that the MFGs cannot void a warranty for an aftermarket part unless it directly caused the malfunction. So a lift kit wouldn't void an engine warranty, and exhaust system wouldn't void steering problems, etc.

This sounds more like a CYA statement.
Magnusson Moss Act. Protects end users and aftermarket manufacturers
 

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Magnusson Moss Act or not. all they have to do is list why they 'think' your modulations is effecting your part..

Like...
Excessive wear on door hinges due to extra weight of aftermarket door speakers ...
And the fact you can have 3 times more weight in the door packet they did not care ..
 

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Lots of modders have a false sense of security with the Magnusson Moss Act. The problem is, who is going to enforce this act?

There was a guy with a BMW M5 (can't remember which generation). He modded the car and had an issue. BMW told him to go take a hike. He got attorneys involved. BMW has attorneys on waiver. He learned that BMW could afford to spend virtually unlimited amounts of money to deny his warranty claim. He could not.

The reason the manufacturers will go out of their way to deny a claim is because if they pay one claim, they have to pay other claims. So they make an example out of anyone who tries to mod and then claim under the Moss Act.

It all comes down to your tolerance for fighting with the manufacturer. And how deep your pockets are. IOW words, if you play, be prepared to pay.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Lots of modders have a false sense of security with the Magnusson Moss Act. The problem is, who is going to enforce this act?

There was a guy with a BMW M5 (can't remember which generation). He modded the car and had an issue. BMW told him to go take a hike. He got attorneys involved. BMW has attorneys on waiver. He learned that BMW could afford to spend virtually unlimited amounts of money to deny his warranty claim. He could not.

The reason the manufacturers will go out of their way to deny a claim is because if they pay one claim, they have to pay other claims. So they make an example out of anyone who tries to mod and then claim under the Moss Act.

It all comes down to your tolerance for fighting with the manufacturer. And how deep your pockets are. IOW words, if you play, be prepared to pay.
A court with juristdicition can enforce the act but I do not see any violation once an owner modifies the vehicle. Clearly the warranty refusal has to pertain to the modification associated with the product failure. If it is not associated with the failed part then it must be coveted.
 

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A court with juristdicition can enforce the act but I do not see any violation once an owner modifies the vehicle. Clearly the warranty refusal has to pertain to the modification associated with the product failure. If it is not associated with the failed part then it must be coveted.

That's the problem - it has to be enforced via a court action. That means you need to hire an expensive attorney. For SOA that's just a way of doing business.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The courts are there for any contract disputes for any consumer issue. I do not see anything wrong with that. Proving your case goes both ways. The emphasis in the act is to get both sides to agree without the court having to decide. Other than a dual there is no other option. Do not modify the vehicle and the issue will not come up, otherwise be prepared for a possible, not absolute dispute.
 

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So will a less than 2” lift pretty much void my power train warranty since a lift does effect all parts of the power train? I’m on the fence with my Eibach install.
 

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My opinion is any lift will void your power train warranty. Larger tires affect the gearing. The higher ride height affects Eyesight.
 

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In the US, a manufacturer cannot "void your warranty" if you decide to modify your vehicle with something such as a lift. But what they can do is refuse to honor the warranty for a repair of something that's deemed to have actually been caused by those modifications. A lift will not affect coverage for your head unit, for example. But if the lift physically causes damage to your drive train, yes...you might be affected materially by your decision.
 
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In the US, a manufacturer cannot "void your warranty" if you decide to modify your vehicle with something such as a lift. But what they can do is refuse to honor the warranty for a repair of something that's deemed to have actually been caused by those modifications. A lift will not affect coverage for your head unit, for example. But if the lift physically causes damage to your drive train, yes...you might be affected materially by your decision.
@Jim_in_PA totally. I should have been more clear. Void was maybe a harsh word. “Not honored” sounds better. 👍
Guess at the end of the day by adding a lift kit, dealers have a solid way out of a transmission or drive train repair that may otherwise be classified as a warranty work, to now be a customer pay job. They want to make money! Warranty work is no bread and butter.
Sooo I would really like to add my lift kit, BUT at the expense of tossing my 5 year 60K mile powertrain warranty out the window is a tough decision.
Any further thoughts are welcome.
 

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@Jim_in_PA totally. I should have been more clear. Void was maybe a harsh word. “Not honored” sounds better. 👍
Guess at the end of the day by adding a lift kit, dealers have a solid way out of a transmission or drive train repair that may otherwise be classified as a warranty work, to now be a customer pay job. They want to make money! Warranty work is no bread and butter.
Sooo I would really like to add my lift kit, BUT at the expense of tossing my 5 year 60K mile powertrain warranty out the window is a tough decision.
Any further thoughts are welcome.
You pretty much summed up my thoughts. One twist in the aftermarket stuff and warranty. I have found dealers in the past on non-Subaru vehicles that liked to install the aftermarket items. You pay a premium for their service in some cases but then that dealer will then honor the warranty if issues arise because of the aftermarket stuff. You may want to talk to your service manager and ask him if you pay to have them install the lift kit will it affect your power train warranty.
 

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You pretty much summed up my thoughts. One twist in the aftermarket stuff and warranty. I have found dealers in the past on non-Subaru vehicles that liked to install the aftermarket items. You pay a premium for their service in some cases but then that dealer will then honor the warranty if issues arise because of the aftermarket stuff. You may want to talk to your service manager and ask him if you pay to have them install the lift kit will it affect your power train warranty.
Hear ya on that. Some other manufactures will install some after market stuff, but from the dealers I have called this far they don’t want anything to do with it unfortunately.
 
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