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Each brand needs to pay. Additionally, there's reports that each dealership needs to also pay. Also, considering the crossover in parts and technology between Dodge and Chrysler, the divergence in ratings speaks volumes.
Alex had a great explanation. Along with the rankings, I would appreciate JD Powers publishing a few of the most prevalent complaints about each manufacturer. I imagine most of them would be infotainment related.
 

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Alex had a great explanation. Along with the rankings, I would appreciate JD Powers publishing a few of the most prevalent complaints about each manufacturer. I imagine most of them would be infotainment related.
It seems lots of review companies are heavily weighting the infotainment systems, including Consumer Reports.
 

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Outside of actually driving the car, the infotainment system is the thing I use second most. I understand why it would be more heavily weighted now than say, 5 or 10 years ago. Overall I'd have to say the UI is very good and straightforward on the Ascent.

And I do like that there are still physical controls for tuning, volume, HVAC, heated / vented seats and things like that, and that you don't have to go into a touch screen like in my Jaguar or Lincoln.

Not necessarily the sexiest control layout for a car, but certainly very intuitive and user-friendly overall.

I'm actually glad we don't have that gigantic touch panel like Volvo, and I think the newer outback & legacy use.
 

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Outside of actually driving the car, the infotainment system is the thing I use second most. I understand why it would be more heavily weighted now than say, 5 or 10 years ago. Overall I'd have to say the UI is very good and straightforward on the Ascent.
ESPECIALLY since virtually every car nowadays uses them for one or more safety systems, such as back-up camera.
 

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CR explains the heavy weighting because learning curve and time that eyes are off the road are safety related.
Right, but I don't think that applies to the Ascent's rating, or any Gen 3.x Subaru. The Ascent was rated really well across the board at first (CR score of 96). But, infotainment system glitches dropped that rating considerably. I also suspect that overall infotainment system glitches across the Gen 3.x line may have contributed as well.

I don't blame them for the change in rating, especially since things like the backup camera were specifically impacted. But, I do look forward to seeing them adjust their ratings based on the infotainment system updates that corrected the issues (which came out after their revised ratings and lower score were posted).
 

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I do look forward to seeing them adjust their ratings based on the infotainment system updates that corrected the issues (which came out after their revised ratings and lower score were posted).
I was counting on the Ascent rating returning to it's prior top rank when I decided to buy the Ascent at the end of April.

It will be interesting to see how the Telluride looks after they get actual owner surveys since the Telluride top score is based on PREDICTED reliability for a new model.

My buddy bought a Telluride the same time I bought the Ascent. I've written elsewhere about how he overpaid. Both our cars have the Harmon Kardon head units. A lot of our center stack and console switch gear is the same. I wonder if HK and Kia did better at joint software development than HK and Subaru.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
It will be interesting to see how the Telluride looks after they get actual owner surveys since the Telluride top score is based on PREDICTED reliability for a new model.
Telluride owners have an expensive Kia that they’re proud of. They’re going to report it’s great 🤷‍♂️
 

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Telluride owners have an expensive Kia that they’re proud of. They’re going to report it’s great 🤷‍♂️
Yup. The Kia salesmen had absolutely no comeback when I said that if I was crazy enough to accept all their market adjustments nonsense and invisible paint and fabric treatments and "mandatory" (mandatory if you want to own a Telluride) 3rd party 10 year service contract, I could buy a Lexus RX350L which would be worth about 40% less after 4 years or their Telluride which would lose the value of every one of their upcharge the second it drives off the lot and be virtually worthless after 4 years.
 

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While I consider JD Power initial quality a joke, here’s this for your reading pleasure. Subaru didn’t score great.

Thoughts?
Just a bit of perspective. We have seen Subaru step up to resolve any issues that they become aware of even if the issue is a remote possibility. In contrast we have Tesla who hid dangerous defects and sold their product anyway (probably to try to keep the delivery schedule promises).

That is the difference between Subaru's commitment and many other manufacturers over and over again.
 

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JD-P is owned by buy a marketing firm and whichever company wants to have positive reviews, they just pay them. Anyone who takes that crap seriously probably shouldn't even own a car
 

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But, in all fairness, and honestly I'm not trying to argue, we'd probably have a more positive perspective of JD power if Subaru was at the top of the survey. It does appear to be a pay-to-play system, but since we'll never know who paid what, we can't necessarily put a direct correlation to $$ vs positioning on their scale.

And like I always say, in the end it's your specific car that you have that matters ( You've all read enough about my posts that I've had great luck with very unreliable brands, & very bad luck with the so-called reliable brands). Not that you want anyone else to have problems with their cars, but as long as yours is pretty reliable, you should be happy with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
But, in all fairness, and honestly I'm not trying to argue, we'd probably have a more positive perspective of JD power if Subaru was at the top of the survey.
honestly I’d be more upset if Subaru was higher on the list. I like that they have their niche
 

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While I consider JD Power initial quality a joke, here’s this for your reading pleasure. Subaru didn’t score great.

Thoughts?
I never put stock in JD Power. Rather than tracking actual problems (things that need repair) their ratings are based on opinions as well (there is nothing broken, but I don't like it).

CR is a better track of reliability. That said, a 2020 car is an order of magnitude more complex of a machine than a 2000. Infotainment, the ECU, the AWD system, sensors in the bumpers, fenders, a turbo/fuel injection system that if put together at that compression ratio and boost in the 1980s w/o a management software system would blow the pistons through the wheel wells!!! And since the base part of ALL manufacturer vehicles are mostly reliable, it is the NEW STUFF that pulls ratings up or down dramatically from year to year.

This is why manufactures now tend to spread new cars based on the same chassis out over several years, rather than take the hit of a ton of first year cars with all of their teething troubles.

Don't get fixated on my car is #2 on any rating and my fool neighbors is #5. No real difference. Look at the quality of care AFTER the sale AND what is the price of a USED car like the one you are considering with 200k miles on it! A 200k mile Chevy Malibu is probably around $500, if it still runs. A Toyota Camry is probably still getting over $5000.

Just my $0.02.
 

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But, in all fairness, and honestly I'm not trying to argue, we'd probably have a more positive perspective of JD power if Subaru was at the top of the survey.
Not true for me. I have never bothered with JDP at all because they are pay to play.

I haven't downplayed the Consumer Reports lowering of the Ascent. Believe me, it gave me serious second thoughts on buying the Ascent vs the CX-9 because I weigh reliability so heavily in my own rankings. The factor that allowed me to go with the Ascent was that it was in second year of production and the CR rating was based on the owner surveys of the first year owners (many of you here). The other categories were still at or near the top like ride quality, quietness, comfort etc.
 

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interesting you bring up the CX-9, I went against my gut decision and we bought the Ascent over the CX-9 (would be a much harder decision now because the Mazda now offers second row captain chairs). I had enough issues with the Ascent the first year, that our good friends, who are Subaru loyalists, actually bought a CX-9. They've had no problem so far, but as I said in my other posts, you never know what you're going to get individually (I'm a perfect example of that!!), although the statistics can generally give you an idea on expected reliability ( ie Mazda and Subaru are generally reliable brands).

In the end, you've got to go with what you like. I'm starting to appreciate the car a little bit more now that it's been more reliable, and the gas mileage has recently improved. I don't know if I'm coming all the way around yet, but I'm definitely liking the car more now than a year ago.

The only time I really worried about reliability was earlier in our purchase process with the Ascent, we ruled out the VW Atlas not just because of the perceived quality of the brand, but because the inside of even the top trim level felt cheap, like it was made out of the same plastic that my garbage can is made out of, except I think my garbage can has more of a soft touch feel to it than the interior or the Atlas.
 

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honestly I’d be more upset if Subaru was higher on the list. I like that they have their niche
Based on the video explanation posted above, I do not think the JD Powers survey is good or bad, but rather often misunderstood. Once you have the correct context and perspective, the survey can be useful.
 

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While I consider JD Power initial quality a joke, here’s this for your reading pleasure. Subaru didn’t score great.

Thoughts?
JD Power is not a reliable source for unbiased quality or satisfaction data. THEY TAKE ADVERTISING MONEY FROM SPONSORS. Consumer Reports buys all their test vehicles and accepts no advertising money from auto manufacturers. I have been an avid reader of CR and have always found their information, recommendations and test data accurate not just with cars but appliances, wireless carriers and so much more.
 

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I can only speak to my experience so far with my 2019 Limited purchased 9/18. I have had zero problems and no trips to the dealer other than for routine service and recalls.

The fit and finish are as good or better than any car or truck I've owned since 1969. There have been no leaks, rattles or odd clunks. At about 20,000 miles everything works like new including the sun roof that gets used a lot during good weather and the tires are hanging in there too.

My gas mileage when I was driving more was at or slightly above the rated mileage.

I have to admit that I actually LOL'd when I read the top brands on the JD Powers list yesterday.
My experience with the Ascent fit and finish:
If you open the front door and back door at the same time they will rub together at the door seal and may separate the door seal from the door over time, especially prone to families with children who are constantly in and out of the middle and 3rd row seats.
A door on either side of the car will be out of alignment or stick out slightly somewhere. My 2019 right rear door is a little cocked and sits further out than the adjacent body and/or framework.
When I went in to get my new transmission and fuel pump, both recalled, at 12,000 miles, I pointed this door rub and door ajar issue to the Service Manager, knowing full well they were unfixable. We walked together around the dealership and every single Ascent rubbed doors and at least one doors' fit was poor on every single one we looked at. He looked at one Ascent on the showroom floor and said, "This one's worse than yours". I'm talking about a 1/64th inch or less out of alignment, hard to spot but it's there. Check these out and see if your fit and finish is that great. Look at the seams around the doors. They should all be of equal width. The rubbing doors will probably not be fixed until the frame/hinges are redesigned. I'm no engineer but not a simple fix.
Sorry, but you won't find these issues on most Japanese brands. This is my first Subaru and my last Subaru.
Good luck with yours.
 
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