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Hood Vibration at Hight Speeds - TSB 12-281-20

12K views 66 replies 24 participants last post by  Old1959 
#1 ·
I'm getting serious hood vibration on my 2019 Ascent when driving at high speeds. The hood panel flaps around and it appears that the only thing keeping the hood on is the latch at the front. I look it up and there is a service bulletin for it on NHTSA web site (https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10171927-0001.pdf). I called two dealerships and both wanted to charge me for the fix because they say its out of the new car warranty. Has anyone had this fix done and did you have to pay for the service? I even have the extended warranty and was told this fix is not covered by the extended warranty. Doesn't seem right so wanted to see if its the same for everyone else.
 
#2 ·
TSBs are indeed chargeable once the OEM 3/36 warranty runs out but the Subaru Added Security Gold extended service contract should cover it, IMHO, although your deductible may apply if you do not have zero deductible. Perhaps I'm wrong about that, however. Cosmetic things are not covered, but this is a functional issue caused by the failure of the adhesive that bonds the aluminum hood skin to the framework below it.
 
#3 ·
#5 ·
m getting serious hood vibration on my 2019 Ascent when driving at high speeds. The hood panel flaps around and it appears that the only thing keeping the hood on is the latch at the front. I look it up and there is a service bulletin for it on NHTSA web site (https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10171927-0001.pdf). I called two dealerships and both wanted to charge me for the fix because they say its out of the new car warranty. Has anyone had this fix done and did you have to pay for the service? I even have the extended warranty and was told this fix is not covered by the extended warranty. Doesn't seem right so wanted to see if its the same for everyone else.
Have plan to do mine in the spring, to cold out for me now. Would have been nice if Subaru came up with a faster glue system for this problem. I mean it is right there in front of you and a bit scary the first few times, or two in a row. And it was not a few units it happened on, border line safety issue to me, aka recall.
Next year it will be a was what it was.


Hood Panel Vibration.pdf
 

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#6 ·
border line safety issue to me, aka recall
Hardly.

Aluminum hoods flex. I still haven't bonded mine. My bonding agent is on a shelf somewhere. My hood lasted over 93,000 miles, and then properly crumpled in an accident.
 
#8 ·
My hood lasted over 93,000 miles
That is very good to hear, sounds like a none issue, but still it`s not a great thing to happen on a test drive. Just thought with Subaru being on top of issues that they would have been just more active other than TSB which is good for 3yrs and takes an over night stay at dealership. For many that would mean an over night stay at hotel/motel...$$.
The good part is they do not blow off in the wind.
 
#11 ·
That is very good to hear, sounds like a none issue, but still it`s not a great thing to happen on a test drive. Just thought with Subaru being on top of issues that they would have been just more active other than TSB which is good for 3yrs and takes an over night stay at dealership. For many that would mean an over night stay at hotel/motel...$$.
The good part is they do not blow off in the wind.
No one needs to stay overnight. Because it's not a safety issue, people can choose to do it at their leisure.

And, when they're doing it, Subaru will provide for a loaner (or rental if no loaners are available). That's clearly stated on the TSB below the warranty claim information, so dealers are all aware of it.
Font Rectangle Screenshot Parallel Number
 
#15 ·
LOL! Exactly!!!
 
#23 ·
Do you have any kind of service invoice that documents your original complaint while still in-warranty? If so, I'd work really hard to get this covered since you could prove you raised the issue early on.
 
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#29 ·
Very high rate, although, the cure time needs to be at 73f, which pretty much means inside for part of the cure time, and the shop manger wants X out of each bay per day, that may be part of the high parking rate.
There should be another adhesive out there that is as strong as the 3M but has a faster cure time. I got my 2019 used and "really" like it, if I was doing a road test in a new one and the hood did that, be a lost sale, poor workmanship/quality right in front me. Surprised Subaru did not go after this faster and through the dealerships rather than the owners.
 
#31 ·
if you can't do it yourself , take TSB print out and go to ANY body shop..
body shop labor is likely to be ~ $50 /h its mechanic hours are $120-200h but not body
You do need(8) box of 10 Hood Bonnet Insulation Clips For Subaru 90814-FC001 cost ~$13/box
they not likly to be reusable..
Yes any body shop could do it, but it stills needs 24hrs and 73f temperature to cure, either at a dealership or a shop it will need to be inside at some point, mangers want those spots to make money.
 
#33 ·
Does this TSB extend to 2021 MY? Mine is separated and has hood shake as well. More dependent on the wind direction for me.
 
#34 ·
I brought our 2019 Ascent Premium in for service and recall work this morning and requested that they perform the hood-vibration TSB on our vehicle (we have Subaru Extended Gold coverage). We drove our Ascent from WA State to Texas this past summer, traversing some two lane (one in each direction) roads in Colorado, Oklahoma, and Texas where the speed limit was 70 mph and oncomming traffic included a lot of tandem semi-rigs. It was a bit unnerving to watch the hood wiggle all over the place every time we had a head-on interception with a semi. The hood remained secure, no surface paint damage (or any other problem that I could see). Just hoping that we won't see that again when we make the return trip. Car will be at the dealer for a while (new CVT) but I will provide an update when I know more.
 
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#37 ·
Was the work for the TSB covered by Gold warranty?

I noticed what I call "hood flutter" on my 2019 fairly early on. As time went on, it got worse. I eventually stumbled across the TSB, and by the time I asked about getting it fixed, I was told it is a cosmetic issue, I was about 3k beyond the std warranty, and even though we have a Gold extended warranty it's not a covered repair and would be about $425 to fix. I declined and wrote directly to Subaru because, at least to me, it truly felt like a safety issue - I fully expected metal fatigue to eventually allow the top of the hood to peel off and flip up over the car, if not worse.
Subaru corporate issued me a coupon to cover most of the cost, and when I did have it fixed, the actual cost was much less, around $200 if I remember.
That was last summer, and it did help. But in the last month we've had some fairly windy days (30+ mph) and it looks to me like the flutter may be coming back. It doesn't sound like an overly difficult repair, so once we get warmer weather, I may take a look and see if the bonds have broken again. As a Robert M. mentioned, this requires removing the insulation under the hood, and from what I can tell, the clips that hold it on aren't reusable (dealer charged for them, both when they originally confirmed the problem and again when they made the repair). If I end up needing to repair it again myself I'll probably look for a better bonding agent, as the specified 3M part doesn't appear to be up to the task. I've never had a hood that moves around like this one, and although my F150 has an aluminum hood, it's rock solid under every condition so far. I also still have to wonder about eventual metal fatigue, although Mr. Mauro's 98k experience is comforting. It does make me wonder if there is something different about newer models in that they don't seem to exhibit this problem...
What reason did the dealership give you that it wouldn't be covered Gold warranty?
 
#35 ·
I noticed what I call "hood flutter" on my 2019 fairly early on. As time went on, it got worse. I eventually stumbled across the TSB, and by the time I asked about getting it fixed, I was told it is a cosmetic issue, I was about 3k beyond the std warranty, and even though we have a Gold extended warranty it's not a covered repair and would be about $425 to fix. I declined and wrote directly to Subaru because, at least to me, it truly felt like a safety issue - I fully expected metal fatigue to eventually allow the top of the hood to peel off and flip up over the car, if not worse.
Subaru corporate issued me a coupon to cover most of the cost, and when I did have it fixed, the actual cost was much less, around $200 if I remember.
That was last summer, and it did help. But in the last month we've had some fairly windy days (30+ mph) and it looks to me like the flutter may be coming back. It doesn't sound like an overly difficult repair, so once we get warmer weather, I may take a look and see if the bonds have broken again. As a Robert M. mentioned, this requires removing the insulation under the hood, and from what I can tell, the clips that hold it on aren't reusable (dealer charged for them, both when they originally confirmed the problem and again when they made the repair). If I end up needing to repair it again myself I'll probably look for a better bonding agent, as the specified 3M part doesn't appear to be up to the task. I've never had a hood that moves around like this one, and although my F150 has an aluminum hood, it's rock solid under every condition so far. I also still have to wonder about eventual metal fatigue, although Mr. Mauro's 98k experience is comforting. It does make me wonder if there is something different about newer models in that they don't seem to exhibit this problem...
 
#38 ·
There will always be some hood movement since the air flow for the intercooler is directed through a duct that is attached to the hood. The only thing that would eliminate it from moving is either thicker metal used for bracing or additional hood bracing. I haven't seen this as a concern on the Outback XT or Wilderness. I think it has to do with the intercooler being closer to the hood so that the air flow is directed to the intercooler more easily. The Ascent intercooler duct looks like it would act more like a parachute that would catch more air compared to the Outback.
 
#41 ·
If more recent vintage Ascents don't exhibit the problem, any guesses as to why? Different design? Better adhesive? If the TSB repair doesn't remove any existing adhesive (which it doesn't appear to do) aren't we just attaching new adhesive to old (and isn't that usually ill-advised?).
I just made a trip from Des Moines to Dallas into a 20 mph headwind and watched my already repaired hood as it bounced and fluttered around in the wake of semi's and other large vehicles. So I'm trying to figure out what is needed to make a permanent repair myself (if possible) once the weather warms up.
I would also be interested to hear how Mr. Mauro's new hood turns out, and if it's noticeably more rigid than the original.
 
#42 ·
My dealer repaired my hood vibration yesterday. They first quoted $169.88 which I mistakenly thought was the price to complete the service bulletin for my Ascent with 44K miles (out of warranty). Turns out that was their diagnostic fee to examine the situation. Much to my surprise, the service consultant called me and said they had decided to repair it at no cost to me. Oh happy day! I had been trying to contact Subaru's 800-number for a week, but could never get them to answer. I was going to plead for them to cover it since I was only 8000 miles out of warranty. Guess the dealer got them to pay for it. PLUS, the dealer did the PTC Heater Ground Bolt recall inspection and my car passed. Good news all around!
 
#43 ·
We've been watching our '19 hood flutter for 80k miles now. After the initial "oh crap the hood's not latched" freakout-pullover event back in Jan. '19, we put it firmly in the "huh, guess it just does that" bucket. It's a big sheet of thin-ish aluminum...it flutters. It's not flexing any joints or or actually bending or anything, I can't see how it'd be fatiguing anything, and it's not in any way structural. So...it's simply not concerning to us. I'm happy to have it flutter for another 80k miles.
 
#44 ·
There is literally no excuse for this to ever be a problem! Ours shook like jello coming the country this week at high speed, 2 lane roads, and 10-15 mph wind. I'll be taking it in when we get home in the spring.

We had a 2017 Honda RL that did the same. The dealer fix did squat to stop it. I wasn't bringing it back there for a 2nd go round. I bought a tube of the 3M stuff and put most of it in there. Solved about 80-90% of it.
 
#46 · (Edited)
Funny I caught this discussion,while in So.Carolina driving toward Congaree National Park. It’s a two lane road and a Tractor Trailer whooshed by us in the on coming lane, I thought the hood was going to blow off. After that each time I saw a truck coming toward me I shifted over a bit to reduce suck zone😝 I’ll add that to the list of things to discuss with the service advisor. Already ordered the LXT Autodrome Hood and adding the hood quick lift gas springs anyway. Hopefully that with solve that issue.
 
#47 ·
Already ordered the LXT Autodrome Hood
Make sure you buy a TMIC grill protector to go on top of the intercooler to protect the fins from damage.
 
#54 ·
Shaggs, some vehicles have an issue where the adhesive that bonds the hood skin to the underlying frame (they have to use adhesive because it's an aluminum hood and a steel frame) has places that fail. That causes the "fluttering". The TSB provides instructions to dealer service folks on how to remediate this by applying adhesive to renew the bond. The vehicle has to stay overnight to cure.
 
#56 ·
The hood vibration/shake is from intake airflow to the intercooler. I drove a 23 Outback 2.5 for 2 weeks and then a 23 Outback XT for 10 days while my Ascent was in the shop. Both with less than 3k miles. The OB 2.5 had ZERO hood shake no matter the crosswind or rate of speed. While the OBXT did have a slight hood vibration at speeds above 75mph or so. Also something to note is the Outback hood design has the front lip of the hood behind the bumper while the Ascent hood front lip is exposed frontal airflow, so that has no changes in hood vibration either. BTW, just got my Ascent's hood TSB done and it still vibrates, not as bad so far, but it still does it.

While the inner structure separating from the outer skin doesn't help the situation, it isn't the cause of the vibration. If someone created an intercooler duct that did not attach to the hood and was mounted using other mounting points under the hood, the hood vibration would probably be nonexistent or very minimal. That's my theory based off my observation of the 2 loaner Outbacks anyways.
 
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