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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ascent Touring with Starlink 5-year plan purchased in cash at delivery.

Have used multiple services multiple times a day (Engine Start, Lock / Unlock, etc.)

Today (28 November 2018) @ 0736 CST US (GMT -6) I received a notification that "Your Remote Engine Start request was successful" which I have received many times before. I thought my wife started it without opening my garage door :rolleyes: Nope ... neither of our two (and only) authorized devices initiated the request. Called Starlink support; they confirmed no request was sent by my wife or I and did not know what happened. They took the info and told me an IT ticket will yield a call back in a couple days.

So I bought their premier product and as much Starlink as they could sell me ... and when I call back to let them know their product is potentially lethal they have no way to escalate this. Just ... wow ...

Anyone else seen this?
 

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Be very careful about this. The Ascent engine is not PZEV and puts out plenty of Carbon Monoxide. I discovered this once when I started the engine just for only a few seconds with the garage door closed to turn the front wheels. A couple of minutes later my CO alarm went off. This surprised me because I've often done this before with my PZEV Forester and the same CO alarm never went off.

The start notice was probably in error, but if the Ascent ever does start remotely in a closed garage, for whatever reason, you can be certain it will build up CO rapidly. Be sure to have tested CO detectors in the garage and throughout your home.

Having a vehicle that is designed to start itself via uncertain software is a bit concerning.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Be very careful about this. The Ascent engine is not PZEV and puts out plenty of Carbon Monoxide. I discovered this once when I started the engine just for only a few seconds with the garage door closed to turn the front wheels. A couple of minutes later my CO alarm went off. This surprised me because I've often done this before with my PZEV Forester and the same CO alarm never went off.

The start notice was probably in error, but if the Ascent ever does start remotely in a closed garage, for whatever reason, you can be certain it will build up CO rapidly. Be sure to have tested CO detectors in the garage and throughout your home.

Having a vehicle that is designed to start itself via uncertain software is a bit concerning.
EXACTLY why I started the thread and pinged SOA directly. I suspect this is an errant notification and appears to not be isolated. However, SOA **MUST** treat this as it is - not an automotive or infotainment issue but a cloud software / IoT / safety issue.
 

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Ok, so I was curious about how long until it would be a significant health risk if you were in your home and the car was running in the garage. I didn't really find an answer, but the Ascent can only run at a max for 10 minutes before shutting off. Based on this random persons calculation below, I think you'll be safe in your home if for some reason it actually happens....enjoy.

Air Specific Gravity: 1.205 kg/m3

Engineering ToolBox

Carbon Monoxide Rate of Emmision for Idling Vehicle Emissions , Light-duty gasoline-fueled vehicles, up to 6000 lb : 6.19 g/min epa.gov/otaq/consumer/f98014.pdf

CO (ppm: Natural atmosphere level) = 0.1 ppm = 0.1 mg/kg

Carbon monoxide poisoning

The acute effects produced by carbon monoxide in relation to ambient concentration in parts per million are listed below

400 ppm (0.04%) Frontal headache within one to two hours

800 ppm (0.08%)Dizziness, nausea, and convulsions within 45 min; insensible within 2 hours

Carbon monoxide poisoning

STD single car garage: 7x4x3.5 m^3 = 98 m^3 => 98 * 2 cars = 196 m^3

Air Mass : 196 x 1.205 = 236.18 kg

CO(ppm : after 'x' minutes) = 0.1 + (6190 * x ) / (236.18 + 0.00619 * x) ppm:mg/kg

CO_dangerous_ppm = 400 - ( 0.1 + (6190 * x ) / (236.18 + 0.00619 * x)) = 0

Computational Knowledge Engine solving for x

Solution == 15.26 minutes
 

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They took the info and told me an IT ticket will yield a call back in a couple days.

...

and when I call back to let them know their product is potentially lethal they have no way to escalate this.
Out of curiosity... what would you have expected?

They did not ignore you. They are treating this as a "technology issue" and have turned it over to their IT team.

I'm not sure what more they could have done, right at that time?
 

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I am unable to determine from the original post, but did the car actually start, or was there just an alert stating it had been started?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Out of curiosity... what would you have expected?

They did not ignore you. They are treating this as a "technology issue" and have turned it over to their IT team.

I'm not sure what more they could have done, right at that time?
I expect a couple things ...

1. SOA to provide its front line people with the ability to escalate a ticket in real-time
2. SOA to respond within 2 hours for emergent issues. It might be "We are working on it and will do X by Y date" or it might be "We found X and fixed it." The customer service rep should be provided with this and be confident committing to it "right at that time."

Also, Starlink support is apparently the same team as internal SOA I.T. - it is frightening to think the help desk guy is responsible for the software which controls my vehicle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I am unable to determine from the original post, but did the car actually start, or was there just an alert stating it had been started?
Unsure - and that's the problem. I saw the email at ~0748 that the car started at 0736, so with 10min max run time it had shut off 2min before I saw the email. I am 99% confident that it did not start - but now I don't trust the app. Forgot to lock the door so I'll use the app - wait, I can't trust it. Want it to warm up so I'll start it - wait, can't trust it. I'm parked in a covered garage at work - did it just turn on by itself because it was hacked??
 

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Unsure - and that's the problem. I saw the email at ~0748 that the car started at 0736, so with 10min max run time it had shut off 2min before I saw the email. I am 99% confident that it did not start - but now I don't trust the app. Forgot to lock the door so I'll use the app - wait, I can't trust it. Want it to warm up so I'll start it - wait, can't trust it. I'm parked in a covered garage at work - did it just turn on by itself because it was hacked??
Two things - one, if the e-mail came through only 12 minutes after the car started and it had turned itself back off, you would have been able to tell if the car had started by simply walking out and touching the hood. The engine would have been warm, and if it HAD been running for 10 minutes in the garage, you'd have been able to smell it.

The second is - when I get the Remote Start notifications on my phone for my wife's Forester, the time I see is when the e-mail was received by my phone. (The 2019 Forester has the same Starlink stuff that the Ascent has.) It doesn't actually tell me when the request was sent. While we're all sort of used to getting e-mails nearly instantly, there are times that an e-mail server may be down and that was a notification that's been floating in cyberspace for some reason, just waiting to GET sent to you.

It's more likely that you received an e-mail that for some reason was supposed to go to someone else's e-mail / phone and they have to figure out WHY you got it.
 

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I expect a couple things ...

1. SOA to provide its front line people with the ability to escalate a ticket in real-time
2. SOA to respond within 2 hours for emergent issues. It might be "We are working on it and will do X by Y date" or it might be "We found X and fixed it." The customer service rep should be provided with this and be confident committing to it "right at that time."

Also, Starlink support is apparently the same team as internal SOA I.T. - it is frightening to think the help desk guy is responsible for the software which controls my vehicle.

Escalating in real time, doesn't necessarily mean putting a tech on the phone with you. If there is not something they need you on with them to actually pull info from the car, etc in real time, it just would not be necessary to keep you on the line.



Can't really speak to number 2, I could agree it would be good to get a status at some interval, not sure if they have an SLA on that or not.



As far as Starlink support being the same as internal SOA IT, how do you know that? Did they explicitly tell you that? And that doesn't necessarily mean that the "help desk guy" is the one working the issue. Most certainly there are specialist in many areas. Most companies of any size have multiple IT teams, and they may/may not have some of the same teams servicing customers directly (if company provides such an external service consumed by external customers) as well as service internal customers, if those internal folks utilize the same services.
 

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Escalating in real time, doesn't necessarily mean putting a tech on the phone with you. If there is not something they need you on with them to actually pull info from the car, etc in real time, it just would not be necessary to keep you on the line.



Can't really speak to number 2, I could agree it would be good to get a status at some interval, not sure if they have an SLA on that or not.



As far as Starlink support being the same as internal SOA IT, how do you know that? Did they explicitly tell you that? And that doesn't necessarily mean that the "help desk guy" is the one working the issue. Most certainly there are specialist in many areas. Most companies of any size have multiple IT teams, and they may/may not have some of the same teams servicing customers directly (if company provides such an external service consumed by external customers) as well as service internal customers, if those internal folks utilize the same services.
I agree....I think if it happened to me I probably would have reported it....,Definitely reported it if it happened again...If I read things correctly its seems like the car did not actually start......and if it did it seems like you may have had to be sleeping in the car for it to have been harmful?(the car only runs 8-10 minutes when remote started?) So Let’s wait and see what Subaru tells the people that reported the issue....? Reporting the answer/solution to this issue won’t be as dramatic as reporting the issue but hopefully someone will.:tango_face_wink:
 

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notification got stock? you cant be sure its Starlink or Subaru at all..
I get notification delay from my doorbell to ANDROID 30-40 min and one time was 3+ days delay
on Iphone same notification 10-40 seconds and longest was 8 minutes...
 

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We got a message at 5:37 that the remote start was successful. Seemed correct as I often start the car when I am asleep. I did check the security footage and found out that it was not true. Very disappointed in myself as apparently I cannot start the car with my mind when I am asleep.
 

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Ok, so I was curious about how long until it would be a significant health risk if you were in your home and the car was running in the garage. I didn't really find an answer, but the Ascent can only run at a max for 10 minutes before shutting off. Based on this random persons calculation below, I think you'll be safe in your home if for some reason it actually happens....enjoy.

Air Specific Gravity: 1.205 kg/m3

Engineering ToolBox

Carbon Monoxide Rate of Emmision for Idling Vehicle Emissions , Light-duty gasoline-fueled vehicles, up to 6000 lb : 6.19 g/min epa.gov/otaq/consumer/f98014.pdf

CO (ppm: Natural atmosphere level) = 0.1 ppm = 0.1 mg/kg

Carbon monoxide poisoning

The acute effects produced by carbon monoxide in relation to ambient concentration in parts per million are listed below

400 ppm (0.04%) Frontal headache within one to two hours

800 ppm (0.08%)Dizziness, nausea, and convulsions within 45 min; insensible within 2 hours

Carbon monoxide poisoning

STD single car garage: 7x4x3.5 m^3 = 98 m^3 => 98 * 2 cars = 196 m^3

Air Mass : 196 x 1.205 = 236.18 kg

CO(ppm : after 'x' minutes) = 0.1 + (6190 * x ) / (236.18 + 0.00619 * x) ppm:mg/kg

CO_dangerous_ppm = 400 - ( 0.1 + (6190 * x ) / (236.18 + 0.00619 * x)) = 0

Computational Knowledge Engine solving for x

Solution == 15.26 minutes
I respectfully disagree w/ your statement. Running your car in a closed attached garage for any period of time is not safe, period. Especially if the garage is tightly sealed. I work in the emergency service business, and on two distinct separate occasions have airlifted entire families to the hospital for this exact reason. In both of those they had gone to bed for the night, and a car had been running for a short period of time at some point in their closed garage prior. One of the family members in each situation had thankfully woken up and realized there was a huge problem. If not for that, they all easily could've died in their sleep. CO (carbon monoxide) is slightly lighter than air, and has a unique ability to distribute itself all throughout a home. Someone had already mentioned it, but keeping a couple CO detectors around the house is definitely cheap insurance.
 

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I respectfully disagree w/ your statement. Running your car in a closed attached garage for any period of time is not safe, period. Especially if the garage is tightly sealed. I work in the emergency service business, and on two distinct separate occasions have airlifted entire families to the hospital for this exact reason. In both of those they had gone to bed for the night, and a car had been running for a short period of time at some point in their closed garage prior. One of the family members in each situation had thankfully woken up and realized there was a huge problem. If not for that, they all easily could've died in their sleep. CO (carbon monoxide) is slightly lighter than air, and has a unique ability to distribute itself all throughout a home. Someone had already mentioned it, but keeping a couple CO detectors around the house is definitely cheap insurance.
Having CO detectors throughout your house is not only cheap insurance, it's also Life insurance.
 

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I respectfully disagree w/ your statement. Running your car in a closed attached garage for any period of time is not safe, period.
By safe, I meant not die. I don't think your vehicle running in the garage for 10 mins will kill you even if you were in the garage with it.
 

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I think Carl's explanation seems to fit. There are times when the notification or e-mail servers are just down, and it'll get put into an "Outbox" for a while, until it's sent. Something to absolutely keep track of and monitor, though!

As someone that worked briefly (about a year) in customer service/technical support/advanced technical support, there are specific skill sets that each division has. Customer Service people tend to have more training towards understanding, empathy, etc. whereas the technical people (which have subdivisions from that big category) have the technical training and know-how to resolve issues.

I worked for a VOIP company as part of a team that would field tickets. Basically, any time a tech support person couldn't figure out a problem, they're escalate/transfer the call to advanced tech. If advanced tech couldn't fix it, they're make a "trouble ticket" that my team would field, and we'd either fix the problem from behind the scenes (most of the time as simple as changing the server routing or remotely rebooting the device) or we'd call the customer back to follow up when done.
 

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I think Carl's explanation seems to fit. There are times when the notification or e-mail servers are just down, and it'll get put into an "Outbox" for a while, until it's sent. Something to absolutely keep track of and monitor, though!

As someone that worked briefly (about a year) in customer service/technical support/advanced technical support, there are specific skill sets that each division has. Customer Service people tend to have more training towards understanding, empathy, etc. whereas the technical people (which have subdivisions from that big category) have the technical training and know-how to resolve issues.

I worked for a VOIP company as part of a team that would field tickets. Basically, any time a tech support person couldn't figure out a problem, they're escalate/transfer the call to advanced tech. If advanced tech couldn't fix it, they're make a "trouble ticket" that my team would field, and we'd either fix the problem from behind the scenes (most of the time as simple as changing the server routing or remotely rebooting the device) or we'd call the customer back to follow up when done.




Haven't played with it enough myself and have only gotten one notification and I believe that was for the alarm being engaged, but what would make this easier for all involved is if each notification sent had a specific unique tracking/event id number included in the message. It could then be correlated to logs/system events and know when it was triggered specifically.
 
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