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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I wonder when Subaru will integrate digital mirrors in their vehicles to replace the side mirrors. Trucks were just recently provided an exemption allowing these mirrors. The Federal regulators stated the mirrors will provide at least the same if not greater safety then is currently provided by the typical side mounted mirrors.
 

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I don't think that vehicle manufacturers will jump on that super quick...like many things like this, it will probably happen first on the high end/luxury brands first and then trickle down. That's my guess, at least. In effect, those of us who drive Ascent Touring already have that for the center mirror...which I use 100% of the time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I don't think that vehicle manufacturers will jump on that super quick...like many things like this, it will probably happen first on the high end/luxury brands first and then trickle down. That's my guess, at least. In effect, those of us who drive Ascent Touring already have that for the center mirror...which I use 100% of the time.
I am generally aware of the Touring mirror. Does it provide sufficient views for lanes on either side of your vehicle? Does that camera come with protection to the lens so it remains clear (defroster, dirt protector). Since this digital mirror has already been approved for use on our roadways. I do not think it will be too long. There are additional costs as well as savings involved. Those side mirrors that everyone wants to collapse will no longer be an issue. The gas mileage will improve and there will be no need to replace torn off mirrors. There are design challenges for sure to properly integrate it into the drivers view. I give it 1-2 model generations for the change depending on feedback from the truck drivers.
 

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With a traditional side view mirror the driver can shift around to change the view. Unless a digital mirror can allow for something similar I don’t see it being adopted anytime soon.
 

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While I've used my Touring electronic rearview when the back of the car has been packed full (including the full 1400 mile move last month), I much prefer the optical version:
  • Like @xydadx3 says, you can shift your head. This helps broaden the effective field of view while keeping the same focal length, and also gives some depth perception. I suppose some new tech head-tracking could simulate this well.
  • For anyone who needs any substantial close-in eye correction, glancing from far-vision forward to digital rearview close-vision involves a change in distance focus that optical mirrors don't require. There would be a similar dynamic for driver's side mirror, but maybe not so much for the passenger side. This is a huge issue for my 50-something eyes, as it takes a second or two to refocus close-distance. As a result, I find that I glance less, which to me is a safety problem that I have to overcome. And if I force myself to overcome it, my eyes get more strained -- believe me, 1400 miles gives you a lot of time to play with these things. (And why doesn't the close-in speedometer/dash give me eye strain? Because my bifocal glasses have the close-in readers down in the middle of the lower 1/3 lens. Unfortunately that leaves lower left and right uncorrected for close-in.)
BTW, I think our digital rearview is within the sweep of the rear wiper. Note that the back-up camera is not, and that was the one that needed a nose-wipe every time I stopped for gas on the long trip. Digital sides could have the same need. Yes, optical side view mirrors also need to be wiped, but one drop of dirty water doesn't make half their view unusable like a camera. One advantage I do see with digital sides is that the front corner of your side window can get pasty with dirt and not affect the screen view.

So to me, it's interesting, but mostly a wash. Get some smart overlays onto the digital views, some head-following display movement, and maybe a big corrector lens on each screen for us ancient people, and there might be something to tip the scale.

T.P.

Edit: Oh one more thought: When I'm at a stoplight behind someone who doesn't move forward with the green, an optical mirror (in their car) lets me see whether they are staring down at their phone (I'd see only the top of their head instead of their eyes) and tells me whether to honk. For side mirrors, my wife says that as a cyclist she can know if a driver parked on the side has made eye contact with her, giving some data on whether to keep swinging wide to avoid a door opening. Anyway, there are others using our mirrors besides just us!
 

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While I've used my Touring electronic rearview when the back of the car has been packed full (including the full 1400 mile move last month), I much prefer the optical version:
  • Like @xydadx3 says, you can shift your head. This helps broaden the effective field of view while keeping the same focal length, and also gives some depth perception. I suppose some new tech head-tracking could simulate this well.
  • For anyone who needs any substantial close-in eye correction, glancing from far-vision forward to digital rearview close-vision involves a change in distance focus that optical mirrors don't require. There would be a similar dynamic for driver's side mirror, but maybe not so much for the passenger side. This is a huge issue for my 50-something eyes, as it takes a second or two to refocus close-distance. As a result, I find that I glance less, which to me is a safety problem that I have to overcome. And if I force myself to overcome it, my eyes get more strained -- believe me, 1400 miles gives you a lot of time to play with these things. (And why doesn't the close-in speedometer/dash give me eye strain? Because my bifocal glasses have the close-in readers down in the middle of the lower 1/3 lens. Unfortunately that leaves lower left and right uncorrected for close-in.)
BTW, I think our digital rearview is within the sweep of the rear wiper. Note that the back-up camera is not, and that was the one that needed a nose-wipe every time I stopped for gas on the long trip. Digital sides could have the same need. Yes, optical side view mirrors also need to be wiped, but one drop of dirty water doesn't make half their view unusable like a camera. One advantage I do see with digital sides is that the front corner of your side window can get pasty with dirt and not affect the screen view.

So to me, it's interesting, but mostly a wash. Get some smart overlays onto the digital views, some head-following display movement, and maybe a big corrector lens on each screen for us ancient people, and there might be something to tip the scale.

T.P.

Edit: Oh one more thought: When I'm at a stoplight behind someone who doesn't move forward with the green, an optical mirror (in their car) lets me see whether they are staring down at their phone (I'd see only the top of their head instead of their eyes) and tells me whether to honk. For side mirrors, my wife says that as a cyclist she can know if a driver parked on the side has made eye contact with her, giving some data on whether to keep swinging wide to avoid a door opening. Anyway, there are others using our mirrors besides just us!
Thanks for the observation on eye focus. I have tried to use the rearview digital image for normal driving and didn't think about having to near focus vs conventional mirror. My eyesight is surgically corrected far-sighted and the digital image in the mirror is blurry. Its also dark which seems to alter perception as well. One of the reasons for going Touring was the hope of using the digital mirror as a boat launching aid but the standard mirrors and backup camera seem to be more useful.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
i done like how monitors stick out off place in Lexus ... i prefer Audi version of it
I agree. As I noted in my first post there would be a challenge with the styling and placement. I hate the way Tesla plopped a large monitor on their dash and it was not integrated. I would hate for something to look like that on the interior sides. If they are going to have a digital mirror the camera better not stick out beyond the body. Other posters brought out valid concerns. I simply do not have enough experience to have a comfortable opinion one way or another. I am noted the trend and opportunity for manufacturers. We shall see how it all plays out.
 

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I don't think that vehicle manufacturers will jump on that super quick...like many things like this, it will probably happen first on the high end/luxury brands first and then trickle down. That's my guess, at least. In effect, those of us who drive Ascent Touring already have that for the center mirror...which I use 100% of the time.
Wow! 100%? That is pretty high praise. What makes it so much better than the standard mirror?

Would you mind giving your thoughts on the other Touring only features as I'm still up in the air on my specific vehicle/trim selection. Here is a list off the top of my head. Feel free to bring up anything I missed that you think is significant. Note I intentionally left off the 120V AC outlet as that is self explanatory.

  • Ventilated Seats
  • Rain Sensing Wipers
  • 180 deg front cam
  • Power Folding Side Mirrors
 

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Wow! 100%? That is pretty high praise. What makes it so much better than the standard mirror?

Would you mind giving your thoughts on the other Touring only features as I'm still up in the air on my specific vehicle/trim selection. Here is a list off the top of my head. Feel free to bring up anything I missed that you think is significant. Note I intentionally left off the 120V AC outlet as that is self explanatory.

  • Ventilated Seats
  • Rain Sensing Wipers
  • 180 deg front cam
  • Power Folding Side Mirrors
Only commenting on the 180 front cam. It works, it does it's job, BUT, it's poorly implemented. It only turns on for less than 10 seconds when you shift from reverse to drive, or you can turn it on manually by pressing the VIEW button for the information display. Even when you turn it on manually, it's only on very briefly. I have to press it multiple times just maneuvering around my other cars in the driveway.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Only commenting on the 180 front cam. It works, it does it's job, BUT, it's poorly implemented. It only turns on for less than 10 seconds when you shift from reverse to drive, or you can turn it on manually by pressing the VIEW button for the information display. Even when you turn it on manually, it's only on very briefly. I have to press it multiple times just maneuvering around my other cars in the driveway.
I bet many owners are frustrated with those limitations.
 

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Wow! 100%? That is pretty high praise. What makes it so much better than the standard mirror?

Would you mind giving your thoughts on the other Touring only features as I'm still up in the air on my specific vehicle/trim selection. Here is a list off the top of my head. Feel free to bring up anything I missed that you think is significant. Note I intentionally left off the 120V AC outlet as that is self explanatory.

  • Ventilated Seats
  • Rain Sensing Wipers
  • 180 deg front cam
  • Power Folding Side Mirrors
The first two on your list are requirements of mine. As has been noted, the front camera works but it's not a "grand implementation". I don't have the folding mirrors as they were not an available feature on MY19.

As to the rear view setup, I use it 100% of the time simply because I like it. The view is crisp. The only thing that occasionally happens is that when someone with crappy LEDs is behind me, the frame rate will show them with a flicker effect. It's only certain vehicles; not all of them.
 
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I wonder when Subaru will integrate digital mirrors in their vehicles to replace the side mirrors. Trucks were just recently provided an exemption allowing these mirrors. The Federal regulators stated the mirrors will provide at least the same if not greater safety then is currently provided by the typical side mounted mirrors.
I would be happy if they just added 360 surround cameras so you can see the curb and camera view activation when the turn signal is activated and automatic folding mirrors. Second row ventilated and heated seats would be a bonus, but these are what subaru still has to catch up with just to stay current.

Interior accent lights and a HUD would also be nice while we are on the subject of tech wishes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I would be happy if they just added 360 surround cameras so you can see the curb and camera view activation when the turn signal is activated and automatic folding mirrors. Second row ventilated and heated seats would be a bonus, but these are what subaru still has to catch up with just to stay current.

Interior accent lights and a HUD would also be nice while we are on the subject of tech wishes.
My limited has second row heating.
 

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Wow! 100%? That is pretty high praise. What makes it so much better than the standard mirror?
It's never obstructed by anything, and has the same field of view as the mirror (but, like previously mentioned, moving your head will not move the field of view). I use mine 100% of the time now too, since I added a hitch mount spare tire carrier.
 

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Based on this thread I'm going to try driving with the mirror in video mode again.

I think part of the problem is that I hate when cars pull needlessly close behind me in traffic or at traffic lights (rear ended 3 times while stopped at red light). In mirror mode I'm accustomed to seeing the headlights disappear as a car pulls behind. In video mode, the headlights never disappear so they look like they're not going to stop.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Based on this thread I'm going to try driving with the mirror in video mode again.

I think part of the problem is that I hate when cars pull needlessly close behind me in traffic or at traffic lights (rear ended 3 times while stopped at red light). In mirror mode I'm accustomed to seeing the headlights disappear as a car pulls behind. In video mode, the headlights never disappear so they look like they're not going to stop.
all of this technology takes some getting used to. I had not had experience using a rear backup camera. It took me a couple of ownership weeks to trust it as well as effectively use it. Now I can thread the needle.
 

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I agree that the Touring rear-view video feature takes getting used to because it does have a different "feel" than the standard mirror. But for me, that's in a good way. After a few weeks of constantly driving that way, the regular mirror was "weird" to me. When I'm driving Professor Dr. SWMBO's MY20 Forester Limited and glance at the mirror, I almost do a double-take because, well...it's not as "crisp" as the video feature in my Ascent. At least to my eyes...which also matters, honestly.

Digital video "mirrors" at the sides will similarly require a bit of adjustment, especially at the point when the only thing hanging out there is a small camera and the "view" is in a different place than it is now.
 

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Digital video "mirrors" at the sides will similarly require a bit of adjustment, especially at the point when the only thing hanging out there is a small camera and the "view" is in a different place than it is now.
The top trim Telluride and Palisade have a nice implementation of the digital mirror while still providing actual side view mirrors. Best of both worlds. When you signal left or right, the speedometer or tachometer on that side turns into the side view display. Very sharp and wide view without having to divert your eyes sideways at all.
 
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