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actually DIA is funded in total through user fees, so taxpayer funds are not used. In reality I bet there were all sorts of giveaways for the development but the facility expansions and operations are all user fees (or so my research tells me). Roads to the airport, mass transit to the airport etc. are ways taxpayer dollars support its operation.
Call them fees, call them tariffs, just different names for taxation. They're just taxes directed at specific target groups.
 

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Partly true. Can't keep it if you stop paying for a plan, and can't port to a different country.

I have a Google Voice number to address the first one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #64 ·
I sorta, kinda remember that...NY, right? I was rather young at the time, however. It was all fantasy to me at that age. :)
I wasn't even an itch in my dad's pants! :ROFLMAO:
 
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There's only 1 prediction from '64 that I remember that has come true. AT&T said that everyone would get 1 phone number that they could keep forever, wherever they move. With number porting and cell phones that can happen.
Yea, I remember that one, too. It actually came up a number of times (pardon the expression) over the 21 years I worked in the telecom industry until retiring. Although I have to admit/disclose that our younger daughter actually holds my original wireless number as about the time I got a corporate phone many years ago, she needed one. When I bagged the company phone, I got a new number that will stick around with me. And with the "land line" going away a few years ago, we indeed to each have our own numbers in this family. :)
 

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Partly true. Can't keep it if you stop paying for a plan, and can't port to a different country.
True, but put this in context for 1964. Most of the residential phone service at the time had party lines and only spotty direct dialing (an operator had to connect the call)

We were also promised flying cars in the 21st century.
 

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Good points. Here are a few more:

1) The cost of charging away from home is ridiculously high. Commercial charging stations typically charge between 39 cents a kWh (if you are a paid member) and 49 cents per kWh if you are a non-member for a Level 2 charger. That's for the luxury of sitting around for hours to charge up to 90%. If you get 3 miles per kWh, your cost is between 13 cents and more than 16 cents per mile. My ICE/hybrid fuel cost is currently around 10 cents per mile, and refueling for a 500-mile range takes five minutes;

2) How will governments make up the loss in gas tax revenue going forward as EVs become a real thing? Are residential electricity users going to face higher rates even if they don't own an EV? Or, will governments go to a miles driven tax on all vehicles? How will that work? And, will it be fair to drivers with highly fuel-efficient ICE/ ICE-hybrid vehicles as opposed to those who drive, say, gas guzzling cars and trucks?; and,

3) How much additional electric generation capacity will be required for every additional million EVs placed in service? And, what will be the generation sources? Windmills? Solar panels? Magic dust?

I don't see any "green" politician stepping up to discuss these issues, much less propose solutions.
Government will always find a way to dip their hands deeper in our pockets. I would bet the farm that at some point, we will get taxed per mile driven. It's already being done in small pilot programs .
 

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Government will always find a way to dip their hands deeper in our pockets. I would bet the farm that at some point, we will get taxed per mile driven. It's already being done in small pilot programs .
I know you're referring to tracking everyone's mileage traveled but there's already more insidious and expensive mileage-based cost. Many areas have built limited access "Express lanes" aka Lexus lanes. The Lexus lanes here are opening in a few months and the fees are determined by distance, time of day and time saved vs staying on the free lanes (demand based fees). Personal vehicles will be more and more expensive to operate and the fuel costs are only part of the picture.
 

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I know you're referring to tracking everyone's mileage traveled but there's already more insidious and expensive mileage-based cost. Many areas have built limited access "Express lanes" aka Lexus lanes. The Lexus lanes here are opening in a few months and the fees are determined by distance, time of day and time saved vs staying on the free lanes (demand based fees). Personal vehicles will be more and more expensive to operate and the fuel costs are only part of the picture.
How do they charge the fees for those lanes where you are?

We have a basic version of some HOV Express lanes with only a couple entrance points and a single exit point that more or less rely on the honor system for tolls. These lanes are reversed each morning and afternoon to meet the higher demand in that direction. If you have 2 or more people in your car and have an ez-pass flex, you can switch it to HOV and avoid the toll in these lanes; a regular ez-pass without the switch charges the toll each time. The only enforcement is state troopers sometimes monitor the toll reader which gives them an indicator whether or not the toll was paid as the vehicle passes under the reader. If the trooper believes only 1 person occupies the vehicle and no toll was paid they can pull you over and verify the ezpass scan and occupancy status. FWIW its a $200 fine if you get caught 'cheating', so its basically a gamble if you decide to chance not paying the tolls and keeping the ezpass selected to HOV all the time, or only switching it to pay the toll if the state trooper is present. Hypothetically speaking if you use the lanes everyday the toll varies based on demand but lets say you average $2 in tolls each weekday. That's 100 week days of not getting caught. If one (not me of course) can go a year or two not getting caught, the ticket more than pays for itself.
Unfortunately more of these lanes are coming in my area. I'm interested to see how the tolling works once they're finished.

Long story short, instead of a mileage tax that will hit the pocketbook all at once, tolls are an option. People will still try to avoid the tolls but if they're made to be convenient and not overly expensive they can be a good source of revenue.
 

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In most areas I've travelled, express lanes use EZPass or similar...with a transponder if you have one and via license plate if you don't (for a higher fee because of the need for billing) This works great for freeways and big highways, but it will be interesting to see how state roads that are not limited access get treated as revenue needs to move from fuel tax to some other method based on usage.
 
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express lanes use EZPass or similar...with a transponder if you have one and via license plate if you don't (for a higher fee because of the need for billing)
That's the starting point for our Lexus lanes. The transponders monitor the entry and exit points then cameras and speed sensors analyze the roadway loading and determine the mileage rate for an individual trip. I'm not opposed to having this but I'm not thrilled about not knowing how much I'll be paying for the possibilities of faster travel. Tolls are actually an equitable way to pay the costs of roadways that might not have been needed if the exurbs hadn't spread so much in pursuit of cheap land. Haven't seen the reality of the new lanes yet since they're not open but it remains questionable just how well traveled they'll be.
 

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Haven't seen the reality of the new lanes yet since they're not open but it remains questionable just how well traveled they'll be.
A number of years ago a toll was placed on one of the local tunnels. for quite a while after the tolling began, traffic on that route was much lower as people actually drove 20 extra minutes around it to save about $2. Once the newness wore off and people accepted the reality that paying the toll is easier than spending 30 minutes in traffic and paying for extra gas, traffic returned to normal. So don't judge the new lanes initially; give them a while.
 

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So don't judge the new lanes initially; give them a while.
I won't be judging them much at all since I don't commute. But, with my occasional use I'll be royally po'd if I find that one day my trip cost me $3 and at a different time it cost $27. The rate table has huge variances.
 

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The variable rate thing is generally in congested areas in and around major metropolitan areas. The DC Beltway is an example. The Express Lanes on the west side of the loop are time of day sensitive because of traffic patterns and demand. Very inexpensive on off-peak...higher cost during the rush(s).
 

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Discussion Starter · #76 ·
Managed lanes should have pricing displayed PRIOR to entering them. That amount will vary based on current traffic conditions...it should NOT be calculated after you enter the lanes. Typically, the more congested it is, the higher the price to PREVENT more folks from going into the managed lanes and maintaining a certain minimal speed within the managed lanes. We have PLENTY of this in Florida. Sections of I-95 can vary from 50 cents to $14 depending on the time of day.
 

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Call me crazy, but squeezing the working class for more and more money to continue feeding the inefficient bureaucracies and masking it as a solution is not a great answer to the problem!

It costs $13.75 to drive a bridge or tunnel into NYC!
 

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Managed lanes should have pricing displayed PRIOR to entering them.
The DC implementation I mentioned does that...it shows the current cost from that entry to several subsequent exits.
 

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It costs $13.75 to drive a bridge or tunnel into NYC!
I'm surprised it's that low, honestly. And then...parking. :) Naa...I'll take the choo-choo! About $15 round trip for me via NJT out of Trenton 'cause, um...I'm mature enough...to qualify for that rate. :D
 
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I'm surprised it's that low, honestly. And then...parking. :) Naa...I'll take the choo-choo! About $15 round trip for me via NJT out of Trenton 'cause, um...I'm mature enough...to qualify for that rate. :D
Ha I wish it was $15! The train is $25 round trip for me, and I'm in between Trenton and NYC. And I still need to switch in Newark on most trains. Oh, make that $50 cause I usually don't go without the Mrs. So at that point might as well drive and park.

I had it in my head that it was closer to $20 for the Lincoln Tunnel, but according to the port authority website it's $13.75.
 
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