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IMO any charger out in the public should be free to charge.
The majority of chargers out there in "public" are owned by private entities...'not sure they would make any kind of investment/deployment if they could not generate income from them. Someone has to pay for the power. Yes, some places are subsidizing because they feel there is a good business case to do so, but organizations that have and are going to deploy charging infrastructure have to generate a rate of return or shareholders will, um...be unhappy. There will, however, be funding available to help with the deployment (in the US) from the recent infrastructure legislation, AFAIK. I haven't seen the details, however.

BTW, Tesla's SuperCharger network isn't free for most new buyers for awhile now. That benefit was only extended to the top end models and the majority of sales/leases these days are Model 3/Model Y which generally do not come with the benefit, AFAIK.
 

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I understand they are owned by private entities. What I'm saying is if you want mass adoption make the chargers free to use. I know I'd instantly buy an EV if I never had to pay for charging when away from home.
 

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I understand they are owned by private entities. What I'm saying is if you want mass adoption make the chargers free to use. I know I'd instantly buy an EV if I never had to pay for charging when away from home.
And who do you think would be paying for the chargers and the charging power?
 

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I understand they are owned by private entities. What I'm saying is if you want mass adoption make the chargers free to use. I know I'd instantly buy an EV if I never had to pay for charging when away from home.
Yea, what packout says. Who pays for the electricity to offer that free charging everywhere? You have to pay for gasoline or other fuels when traveling, why not electricity if your vehicle eats that?
 
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I understand they are owned by private entities. What I'm saying is if you want mass adoption make the chargers free to use. I know I'd instantly buy an EV if I never had to pay for charging when away from home.
While we're at it, let's just make EVs free. That would certainly accelerate mass adoption!
 

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I know you are all biting at the bit how we get free recharging, I don't have the answer. Just the opinion on how to get mass adoption.

Look at airports. Originally hardly any wall outlets in sight, but all those "pay to charge your cell phone" kiosks and luggage with internal battery solutions. Now look where we are, there are wall outlets all over for free charging making those kiosks irrelevant and the luggage batteries less needed (though somewhat relevant at times).

Or look at parking in cities. You have validated parking, or free 90min parking, or free weekend/after 5pm parking. More of a hybrid free/fee model, but again something to spur consumers.

Maybe something like McDonald's had where a purchase would net a code which gave you X time free wifi. The second a grocery store offers this you'll see the chargers being used all the time. $100 grocery purchase and you get 45 minutes of free charging. Score!

Given that charging away from home is costly and time consuming, having a fee based model to charge your car on top of that isn't going to entice a lot of people.
 

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haha I think we need to ease up on @mtmra70 a bit... I don't like the idea of making things "free" but also get the idea of needing to incentivize potential EV buyers, and help reduce concerns like range anxiety - especially if we're committed to making EVs our future of transportation.

If you make everything free, however, I can see a lot of people not wanting to make the investment in charging stations. Anecdotally, I worked for a company that installed free charging stations in our parking private parking lot fairly early (when cars like the Leaf and ActiveE 1 series were just coming out), and there were constantly people with EVs from surrounding businesses waiting for a charge and taking up parking spots. While it was inconvenient for employees, there were also liability concerns and, at one point, I think some random ended up running one of the chargers over and just leaving... haha
 

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I also understand the idea that free charging can be an EV adoption incentive. I just don't see how it can happen in our business economy.
 
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I know you are all biting at the bit how we get free recharging, I don't have the answer. Just the opinion on how to get mass adoption.

Look at airports. Originally hardly any wall outlets in sight, but all those "pay to charge your cell phone" kiosks and luggage with internal battery solutions. Now look where we are, there are wall outlets all over for free charging making those kiosks irrelevant and the luggage batteries less needed (though somewhat relevant at times).

Or look at parking in cities. You have validated parking, or free 90min parking, or free weekend/after 5pm parking. More of a hybrid free/fee model, but again something to spur consumers.

Maybe something like McDonald's had where a purchase would net a code which gave you X time free wifi. The second a grocery store offers this you'll see the chargers being used all the time. $100 grocery purchase and you get 45 minutes of free charging. Score!

Given that charging away from home is costly and time consuming, having a fee based model to charge your car on top of that isn't going to entice a lot of people.
You are missing a critical element in your analysis. Free WiFi does not cost the business anything extra. they already pay for WiFi for their own internal use. any incidental WiFi use is an insignificant cost that is covered by having patrons spend more in the restaurant. In contrast the electrical infrastructure cost is high and the actual KW cost is high (and will go higher with additional usage demands). The cost is real and is covered by all taxpayers or business customers. Nothing is free anywhere, anytime.



 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
I know you are all biting at the bit how we get free recharging, I don't have the answer. Just the opinion on how to get mass adoption.

Look at airports. Originally hardly any wall outlets in sight, but all those "pay to charge your cell phone" kiosks and luggage with internal battery solutions. Now look where we are, there are wall outlets all over for free charging making those kiosks irrelevant and the luggage batteries less needed (though somewhat relevant at times).

Or look at parking in cities. You have validated parking, or free 90min parking, or free weekend/after 5pm parking. More of a hybrid free/fee model, but again something to spur consumers.

Maybe something like McDonald's had where a purchase would net a code which gave you X time free wifi. The second a grocery store offers this you'll see the chargers being used all the time. $100 grocery purchase and you get 45 minutes of free charging. Score!

Given that charging away from home is costly and time consuming, having a fee based model to charge your car on top of that isn't going to entice a lot of people.
I hear you...but nothing is free.

That trip to the grocery store and a "free" 45 minute charge...is paid for by every customer that walks into that store via increased priced on the goods. This will be the same for hotels, malls, etc. That lost revenue is going to be gained elsewhere. There never, ever, is a free lunch...i mean, charge! :LOL:
 

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I realize this.... not looking for an economics or business lesson ;)

The point was around EV adoption and stimulating that.
 

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The point was around EV adoption and stimulating that.
It's a valid point. Tesla did exactly that with the SuperCharger network and the Model S, etc. But they had a captive audience on a high-end/pricy vehicle. It's hard to imagine how to pull that off in a mass market situation. But I honestly don't think there will need to be as much stimulus for EV adoption going forward as there was in the beginning. There are a lot of folks considering it and all the manufacturers are working up healthy chunks of their coming vehicles to be EVs. Public awareness is growing quickly as a result. I suspect that many folks will take the same path as I intend to do which is to have an EV for "ratting around" and a non-EV for hauling and travel for the foreseeable future. Of course, this is relatively easy for folks like me to do...we own our own homes and can easily have a proper overnight charging setup. I share the concern expressed earlier about folks living in multi-unit situations where they do not have the ability to install their own charging facilities. Apartment complexes around here are installing chargers and touting their availability as an amenity, but the number of such things is limited and likely will be for some time. Chicken and egg problem for sure...
 

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While we're at it, let's just make EVs free
Ya mean like Cash for Clunkers where taxpayers got soaked for over $30k for every $25k car sold under the program?

Look at airports. Originally hardly any wall outlets in sight, but all those "pay to charge your cell phone" kiosks and luggage with internal battery solutions. Now look where we are, there are wall outlets all over for free charging making those kiosks irrelevant
Airports are built and maintained with taxpayer money. Everything that happens at an airport gets direct or subsidized by the public.

The cost is real and is covered by all taxpayers or business customers. Nothing is free anywhere, anytime.
Correct. There's no free lunch. Even for those receiving the "free lunch" there's loss of liberty. Free electricity for EVs? Don't be surprised if the "small print" for the free electricity turns out to be restrictions on how big or thirsty your EV is allowed to be or the hours/days/places you're allowed to drive it.

The point was around EV adoption and stimulating that.
I'm still waiting for the nuclear car that never needs fueling that was promised to me at the 1964 World's Fair.
 

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Ya mean like Cash for Clunkers where taxpayers got soaked for over $30k for every $25k car sold under the program?


Airports are built and maintained with taxpayer money. Everything that happens at an airport gets direct or subsidized by the public.


Correct. There's no free lunch. Even for those receiving the "free lunch" there's loss of liberty. Free electricity for EVs? Don't be surprised if the "small print" for the free electricity turns out to be restrictions on how big or thirsty your EV is allowed to be or the hours/days/places you're allowed to drive it.


I'm still waiting for the nuclear car that never needs fueling that was promised to me at the 1964 World's Fair.
actually DIA is funded in total through user fees, so taxpayer funds are not used. In reality I bet there were all sorts of giveaways for the development but the facility expansions and operations are all user fees (or so my research tells me). Roads to the airport, mass transit to the airport etc. are ways taxpayer dollars support its operation.
 

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I'm still waiting for the nuclear car that never needs fueling that was promised to me at the 1964 World's Fair.
I sorta, kinda remember that...NY, right? I was rather young at the time, however. It was all fantasy to me at that age. :)
 

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I sorta, kinda remember that...NY, right? I was rather young at the time, however. It was all fantasy to me at that age. :)
NY.
Chrysler debuted their gas turbine car and GE had regularly scheduled nuclear explosions under a plexiglass dome as well as prototypes of miniaturized reactors for vehicles.

There's only 1 prediction from '64 that I remember that has come true. AT&T said that everyone would get 1 phone number that they could keep forever, wherever they move. With number porting and cell phones that can happen.
 
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