Subaru Ascent Forum banner
1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Don’t let dealerships make more than a few hundred for convenience on your doubt

Priced and bought and haggled multiple cars through this program and the pricing might be a little off but not much and either way it shows you the guy next door is paying to much

And also got screwed on a crosstrek hard by not following this rule and still thought I saved a buck at the time
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
I priced a few cars through Costco, but didn't buy. Felt like they just turned me over to a sales person at the dealership the same as going direct.

I've bought several cars each year for work and home for about 18 years now. For most of the time I ferociously shopped price. However, in the past 5 or so years I've noticed that the delta between invoice and msrp has dwindled (what I always considered the bargaining zone), and when I shop like a savage I save only about $500 either way. In fact, I've noticed that savings in car buys is more related to manufacturer incentives and less in dealer flex. Even with trades and all cash deals, my bargaining still floats less than $1000 between dealers. That's shopping a roughly 300 mile radius around Pittsburgh.

My guess is buyer mobility and internet shopping has forced the industry to quash the bargaining of ole in favor of dealer hold backs and more uniform pricing throughout the country. I'm not an expert in the industry, and I didn't study the number in any quantitative fashion - my anecdotal experience only.

Even though I'm not into buying cars from them, I throw my wallet at Costco religiously every month for everything else they sell!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
646 Posts
My guess is buyer mobility and internet shopping has forced the industry to quash the bargaining of ole in favor of dealer hold backs and more uniform pricing throughout the country.
The interwebs has pulled back the veil on many industries.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jason

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
I priced a few cars through Costco, but didn't buy. Felt like they just turned me over to a sales person at the dealership the same as going direct.

I've bought several cars each year for work and home for about 18 years now. For most of the time I ferociously shopped price. However, in the past 5 or so years I've noticed that the delta between invoice and msrp has dwindled (what I always considered the bargaining zone), and when I shop like a savage I save only about $500 either way. In fact, I've noticed that savings in car buys is more related to manufacturer incentives and less in dealer flex. Even with trades and all cash deals, my bargaining still floats less than $1000 between dealers. That's shopping a roughly 300 mile radius around Pittsburgh.

My guess is buyer mobility and internet shopping has forced the industry to quash the bargaining of ole in favor of dealer hold backs and more uniform pricing throughout the country. I'm not an expert in the industry, and I didn't study the number in any quantitative fashion - my anecdotal experience only.

Even though I'm not into buying cars from them, I throw my wallet at Costco religiously every month for everything else they sell!
In Pittsburgh I think you are very much correct as I have bought several cars over the border in PA instead of dealing with WV dealers who are very much still stuck in the old ways. I've bought now 3 Subaru's in 3 years first Legacy was totaled and got a replacement and now an Ascent, the dealer about 5 miles from my house wouldn't even match an out the door price in Washington PA and if I wanted to drive a little North of the 'Burgh I could have saved another couple hundred but the extra time is worth more to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
965 Posts
Don’t let dealerships make more than a few hundred for convenience on your doubt

Priced and bought and haggled multiple cars through this program and the pricing might be a little off but not much and either way it shows you the guy next door is paying to much

And also got screwed on a crosstrek hard by not following this rule and still thought I saved a buck at the time
We're actually talking about this in training, the way customers have changed. While there's still some people doing it the old way - which pricing MSRP down, so you're seeking huge discounts that may or may not actually exist, the new way is invoice up.

Keep in mind we're talking about Subaru's here, too - which are, when you really get down to it, value priced to begin with. It's not like another brand where they can advertise $10,000 off MSRP and still make money ...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
98 Posts
We saved some money using Costo when we purchased my wife's 2014 Forester but the Ascents and Crossteks are selling so fast, only list price was available.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
304 Posts
Don’t let dealerships make more than a few hundred for convenience on your doubt

Priced and bought and haggled multiple cars through this program and the pricing might be a little off but not much and either way it shows you the guy next door is paying to much

And also got screwed on a crosstrek hard by not following this rule and still thought I saved a buck at the time
You can't really get screwed on a Crosstrek. Even the MSRP on those is a great price for the car you get. The problem is people don't want car dealerships to sell the old way, but they still want 'deals' like the old way. A good dealership isn't screwing you out of your money any more than costco, sams, or best buy are screwing you out of your money. They are the middle man between you and the manufacturer. Hating on dealerships for doing the same thing as any other retail store is just more fashionable because everyone on the internet tells you to.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
292 Posts
Don’t let dealerships make more than a few hundred for convenience on your doubt

Priced and bought and haggled multiple cars through this program and the pricing might be a little off but not much and either way it shows you the guy next door is paying to much

And also got screwed on a crosstrek hard by not following this rule and still thought I saved a buck at the time
You can't really get screwed on a Crosstrek. Even the MSRP on those is a great price for the car you get. The problem is people don't want car dealerships to sell the old way, but they still want 'deals' like the old way. A good dealership isn't screwing you out of your money any more than costco, sams, or best buy are screwing you out of your money. They are the middle man between you and the manufacturer. Hating on dealerships for doing the same thing as any other retail store is just more fashionable because everyone on the internet tells you to.
I disagree. The difference between car dealerships and Costco/other retailers is that pricing at these Costco/other retailers are standard for anyone going to that particular store. Want a gallon of milk? The price is “transparent” for all to see and everyone has the same access. There is no room to negotiate to pay less than the price listed.

Car dealerships get a bad rep bc there are too many cases where the sales rep are misleading or dishonest about pricing; the pricing isn’t transparent; and people are paying a wide range or prices for the same exact product.

Oreste- imo, a comment like yours above, especially as you are a Subaru dealer sales rep, reaffirms why many don’t trust car sales reps. Your comment about how any price paid for the cross trek (even MSRP) is a good deal is certainly not true to most consumers, not if they know a large population are getting it for less than MSRP. If you know you’re paying more than others for a product and it doesn’t bother you, you must be too rich to care or you may not be good with your money.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
304 Posts
You're a bit incorrect on the first point here. The difference between auto sales and other industries is that people inherently have an issue paying retail price. That is not the dealership's fault. If you want the transparent price, look on the window. If you do happen to be at a dealership that wants to charge you for extras, politely decline just like you do when Best Buy offers the maintenance/warranty plan. It is the same type of upsell. Heck, even Dominos tries to upsell me by offering extra cheese every time i place an order online. The extra "fluff" that car dealers want you to buy isn't exclusive to the auto sales industry. It's present everywhere. Dealerships just have a stigma around them from a pre-internet era.

My comment about the Crosstrek is that, even at MSRP, there is a lot of value from features included. The Crosstrek is a very capable vehicle with plenty of features vs other cars in the same segment that cost several thousand more (that may not even have AWD). I'm just pointing out that the Crosstrek is low cost/high value due to MSRP being considerably lower than it's competitors MSRP...on top of having almost no markup in the first place.

I've found the biggest reason people don't trust a sales consultant is that they go into the process of buying a car already thinking that someone is trying to screw them over.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
313 Posts
I've found the biggest reason people don't trust a sales consultant is that they go into the process of buying a car already thinking that someone is trying to screw them over.
And I'll only speak for myself and from my experience, but this is because of that personal past experience. Vehicles are typically the second largest be purchase people make (after housing), but salesman usually approach it like some low cost commodity. I get the feeling they're trying to make extra profit at every step. I typically don't get that feeling when buying things off the shelf at Costco or the grocery store. While both have retail prices it is very different to compare.

When dealer staff, in different states from different OEMs, over the years have told me things I know to be false you start to grow skeptical of them. And the idea that how much you negotiate can swing the sales price for two different customers at the same dealership by significant percentage points... It definitely makes you feel the need to be more guarded.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
292 Posts
You're a bit incorrect on the first point here. The difference between auto sales and other industries is that people inherently have an issue paying retail price. That is not the dealership's fault. If you want the transparent price, look on the window. If you do happen to be at a dealership that wants to charge you for extras, politely decline just like you do when Best Buy offers the maintenance/warranty plan. It is the same type of upsell. Heck, even Dominos tries to upsell me by offering extra cheese every time i place an order online. The extra "fluff" that car dealers want you to buy isn't exclusive to the auto sales industry. It's present everywhere. Dealerships just have a stigma around them from a pre-internet era.

My comment about the Crosstrek is that, even at MSRP, there is a lot of value from features included. The Crosstrek is a very capable vehicle with plenty of features vs other cars in the same segment that cost several thousand more (that may not even have AWD). I'm just pointing out that the Crosstrek is low cost/high value due to MSRP being considerably lower than it's competitors MSRP...on top of having almost no markup in the first place.

I've found the biggest reason people don't trust a sales consultant is that they go into the process of buying a car already thinking that someone is trying to screw them over.
On the contrary, I do believe it's the dealer's fault. If the dealer is willing to receive a certain price point for a certain car, but only allow this lower price point to specific customers (typically those who have done more research and/or negotiating more), then this is the dealer's fault - the dealer CREATED this market. The "unfairness" is reaffirmed when the "dealers" value the same exact car differently depending on each individual consumer. Again, blame should be on the dealers and not the consumers. At the end of the day, it's about perception of fairness, and dealers have a legitimate poor reputation for offering a lack of fairness. Don't blame the consumers for doing what's best for them (e.g., finances).

You go to Costco or Best Buy - the price you see if the price EVERYONE pays. This is NOT true for most dealerships (e.g., exclusive of dealers like Saturn, RIP).

Your comment about the Crosstrek at MSRP is strictly subjective, just like everything we pay for in life. Anyone can argue that almost any car's MSRP offers a lot of value, simply because "value" is highly subjective.

IF all dealers offered the same price like Costco and Best Buy - where it's buy it or leave it, then we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
764 Posts
To the original post - The Costco program is nothing special in the auto industry - Costco wants it to be, but its not. Its just a lead generation source for dealerships. That's all. The "Costco Price" is set up by the dealerships that participate in the program. The dealership can, and most of the time will, sell you the car for less if you push.


To the ensuing conversation - I actually work at a dealership that does not negotiate. At all. We have one price for each model and if that works, great. Its a super easy and transparent process. But you need to understand the amount of work that goes into generating that price. Its not a blind shot in the dark price that we make up. We constantly secret shop the competing Subaru dealers in the area, consider truecar, supply, demand, etc and we update it (if needed) once a month. A perfect example is the 2018 XT Forester. It was priced a couple hundred dollars over invoice until Subaru announced that they were discontinuing it. Price shot up $600 the next day.

95% of people absolutely love it. Its our best price right up front. No games, no haggle, no hassle. No hidden fees or added accessories. Its super easy on the customer and myself as a salesman can focus more on customer service rather than how much profit I'm going to generate for the dealership and myself.

There is still that 5% that won't believe me no matter what I say. And that is fine, they are welcome continue shopping. Perhaps they will save a couple hundred dollars, but more often than not the competing dealership will get them with their hidden fees and such :(

My point to all of this is simple. If Subaru came out and said "No more negotiating." All dealerships have to sell their cars at MSRP/Invoice it would be the best thing for Subaru. Customers could focus more on what they like about the car and dealerships would be able focus more on taking care of the customer rather than how to squeeze ever penny of profit from customers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,136 Posts
The one price, one person, one hour dealership in the Denver area has a great business model, BUT they turn people away by artificially lowering trade-in values.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
304 Posts
Jason- I wish more dealerships are like yours and more sales reps are like you.
You would probably be surprised at the number of salesmen that are honest and transparent with their customers. In my experience, it's the management that creates bad situations, plenty of salesmen just want to get you the price you're trying to get to so they can move a unit. New cars typically don't turn much of a front end profit for the salesman anyway.

I too would love for Subaru to just mandate MSRP and let me focus on my client relationships. I also wish they'd stop packaging Nav with the moonroof...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
764 Posts
The one price, one person, one hour dealership in the Denver area has a great business model, BUT they turn people away by artificially lowering trade-in values.
With this business model you definitely have to be aggressive with your pricing right up front otherwise you will lose a lot of people. With the internet there is so much info out there (not all of it is correct unfortunately) that people have a very good idea of what to expect. If you are not at least close, you lose them :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
It’s funny how many are arguing this


But if you can take one guaranteed price then to one dealer and match it

And watch people all day pay hundreds or thousands more at the exact same dealer on the exact same day

For the same exact thing
While I’m there.


I am simply telling people to do your research and stick to your guns

I am not viable to one company or the next just the one I noticed saved me the most

BUT DONT WORRY I UNDERSTAND ALL YOU SALESMAN NEED HIGHER PRICES TO PAY FOR YOUR GFs BRACELETS


while I am working every weekend to put disabled veterans in boats or soccer practice they argued that if I difnt pay 5 k more the owners wife was going to take it

She didn’t and has one child I’ve come to learn

But I took my money to a worthwhile dealer

Paid less than anyone I’ve heard minus one

I’m happy

I’m advising to get the cheapest best car possible

You could have the cheapest Maserati
And the most expensive right next to each other and they could be the exact same model


And one of those jokers might’ve Paid interest in the value of an entire secondary car


Obviously if possible don’t pay interest
That’s not a luxury most of us get

So pay lowest price and lowest interest and make sure the money goes towards your own family and not someone else’s
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
764 Posts
BUT DONT WORRY I UNDERSTAND ALL YOU SALESMAN NEED HIGHER PRICES TO PAY FOR YOUR GFs BRACELETS

The salesman should never make YOUR car buying experience about them in any way.

But honestly, YOUR car buying experience is about more than just price. Sure it feels good to pay less for a car. And its even better if they treat you nice. But you are going to own that car for a long time (most people do at least). Its nice to find a store that is going to take care of you throughout the life of your car.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top