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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Fiat Chrysler is reopening their Detroit plant and will be producing a new three-row full size Jeep SUV. https://www.fcagroup.com/en-US/medi...to_Expand_Production_Capacity_in_Michigan.pdf


It sounds like the three row SUV market is about to be carved up, each offering unique feature offerings. I suspect Jeep will offer a branded Jeep Cherokee 4 wheel drive. It will not be clear as to how they intend on differentiating from the pack. Size, 4 wheel drive, looks, ride?


All of this is investing billions in what they clearly see as a viable free market at a time when government is trying to force us to drive sardine cans or even shared sardine cans.
 

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Given Jeep's dismal reliability and quality scores compared to Subaru's excellent scores, it would be a hard sell to someone who's done the research. I really don't know how Jeep continues to sell vehicles with their current reputation. If I'm going to spend upwards of $40,000 on something, my business is going to go to a company with a proven quality and reliability record. I always keep an open mind, but before I spend that much of my hard earned money, I have to see years worth of proven quality.

In CU's brand report card Subaru is currently ranked #1 out of 33, Jeep is ranked 29th. In CU's reliability rankings, Subaru is currently ranked 2nd out of 28, Jeep is ranked 23rd. In CU's owner satisfaction survey, Subaru is currently ranked 4th out of 31, Jeep is ranked 24th. These results are from vehicle owners themselves.

Yes, I'd rather purchase a vehicle that generates jobs in the US. Since Subaru manufactures the Ascent in Lafayette, Indiana, it fits the bill, whereas a lot of US car companies are now manufacturing cars in Mexico and other non-US locations. Most Jeeps are still manufactured in the US, but the Renegade is manufactured in Melfi, Italy and in Goiana, Brazil. Fiat Crysler, an Italian and American company, which owns the Jeep brand, has 159 manufacturing facilities total, in Venezuela, Canada, Mexico, Italy, Brazil, and the United States. So while Jeep may be considered an iconic American brand, it is actually a part of a multinational company.
 

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I was rear ended by a prototype of this Jeep, 2 winters ago. Granted it was prototype, I was not impressed with it at all. My Acadia left the accident without a scratch on it and the Jeep's front end was destroyed and leaking coolant everywhere. The engineering was pretty upset and shaken about the accident, they sent out a special tow truck from FCA to tow it back to Auburn Hills.

I live in the Detroit Area so it is pretty common to see prototype cars covered in black and white swirl covers, for GM, Ford, FCA, and sometimes Nissan.
 

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Considering the Grand Cherokee has lousy crash test ratings I think Subaru has nothing to fear. The most unreliable vehicle I’ve ever owned was a Jeep Cherokee.
I could not agree more! I’ve had 3 Jeep Grand Cherokees! LOVED them as far as looks and being true 4x4, and that Hemi was sweet... but after 75000 miles I stayed in the garage... 2 needed transfer cases, wheel bearings all the time, very noisy rear and repairs costing me more than they were worth. I still test drove a new one before the Ascent but my hubby refused to let me have another one! Haha!
 

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I really don't know how Jeep continues to sell vehicles with their current reputation.
You're surprised that your fellow Americans don't do research or base their decisions on logic?

Knee-jerk: Jeep=rugged=Merica=take my money!

It's why CVT's have idiotic "fake shift points" that diminish both performance and economy, because "PeoPlE dOn'T LiKE tHe DrONe..." It's why crossovers are pushing everything else out of the market, even though they don't do ANYTHING as well as the cars, trucks, vans or "real" SUV's they claim to replace.

(inhale) (exhale) Yeah.
 

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The next generation Grand Cherokee will indeed have a 3-row variant that replaces the Durango going forward. But it's still away out, currently planned as a MY21 vehicle and the three row will be a late introduction. And I assure the poster above that they didn't see or interact with this new vehicle two years ago. It was probably the original idea that got shelved. "WL" is a brand new platform based on the same platform as the Alfa Romeo Stelvio and things are just starting to gel relative to mule testing, etc. Anything two years ago wasn't for the next gen JGC.

For the record, my JGC has been one of the best vehicles I've owned. If I don't buy an Ascent this year, I'll be buying another JGC. More than 800 a day (and growing) roll out of the Jefferson North plant in Detroit and every single one of them is a sold vehicle, either to an end customer or for a dealer order.

I discount the recent crash test thing simply because the current platform was designed in the 2008-2009 time frame with Daimler (it's the same platform as the ML350) and these new tests are coming many years later. That's normal for any vehicle as new tests roll out. Subaru has to deal with the same challenges, but with a typical five year cycle, it's bit easier. The current JGC is running at least a ten model year cycle currently if the WL doesn't slip further.
 

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The next generation Grand Cherokee will indeed have a 3-row variant that replaces the Durango going forward. But it's still away out, currently planned as a MY21 vehicle and the three row will be a late introduction. And I assure the poster above that they didn't see or interact with this new vehicle two years ago. It was probably the original idea that got shelved. "WL" is a brand new platform based on the same platform as the Alfa Romeo Stelvio and things are just starting to gel relative to mule testing, etc. Anything two years ago wasn't for the next gen JGC.

For the record, my JGC has been one of the best vehicles I've owned. If I don't buy an Ascent this year, I'll be buying another JGC. More than 800 a day (and growing) roll out of the Jefferson North plant in Detroit and every single one of them is a sold vehicle, either to an end customer or for a dealer order.

I discount the recent crash test thing simply because the current platform was designed in the 2008-2009 time frame with Daimler (it's the same platform as the ML350) and these new tests are coming many years later. That's normal for any vehicle as new tests roll out. Subaru has to deal with the same challenges, but with a typical five year cycle, it's bit easier. The current JGC is running at least a ten model year cycle currently if the WL doesn't slip further.
Except Subaru's have been notoriously safe for many years, whereas Jeep has been a death trap forever and a day. Glad you're having luck with your JGC, but on average they are unreliable and don't last. Buddy of mine has owned a few cause his wife likes them and he suffers the issues constantly. If it weren't for her, he would ghost ride the thing over a cliff and be done with it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Ill be happy with my Ascent which I pick up on Wednesday. Jeep lack of reliability is not at all what I am looking for nor their higher price, nor the less attention to safety, I do not need the four wheel drive all the time and I certainly would not buy a vehicle to make a statement of some sort. I test drove five different manufacturers' vehicles before choosing the Ascent. I never bothered with a Jeep (crossing it off on paper).
 

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whereas Jeep has been a death trap forever and a day.
This is simply not a true statement about the current generation of Grand Cherokee. Or even the previous generation. I will agree, however, that early generations were not great in this aspect and that Subaru represents one of the safest vehicle lineups on the planet.
 

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I had a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited with Jeeps V6 engine. Sold it in about a year. Most uncomfortable seats ever in any SUV I've ever owned. Rock hard drivers seat. Driving on several road trips in hilly areas, was continuously shifting in and out of lower gears trying to maintain highway speed limits, really annoying. Also had a 2012 Wrangler Limited with same V6 engine, 6 speed, did the same in and out shifting. No other issues other than that but the V6 and trans. combination IMO, not very good set up.
 

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This is simply not a true statement about the current generation of Grand Cherokee. Or even the previous generation. I will agree, however, that early generations were not great in this aspect and that Subaru represents one of the safest vehicle lineups on the planet.
No, they wait until you get OUT of the car to kill you.

Remember Anton Yelchin!



(As of June, 2016, 266 crashes, 68 injuries, and at least one death.)
 

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Stupid dial and push button transmission selectors. Leave well enough alone! Nothing wrong with the traditional PRND shifter. Leave it as is!!!

That was one of the big reasons I passed on the Honda Pilot.
 

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No, they wait until you get OUT of the car to kill you.

Remember Anton Yelchin!



(As of June, 2016, 266 crashes, 68 injuries, and at least one death.)
Yes, that was an unfortunate thing with the MY14-MY15 shifter. JGC went back to a "Normal" type with MY16 so the risk from that issue is abated for newer model years (as well as MY11-13 which had the "normal" shifter) and folks with MY14-15 were treated to a software update that made the specific circumstance that caused the issue to not be able to happen going forward. That fix did have some unfortunate inconveniences, however.
 

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This is simply not a true statement about the current generation of Grand Cherokee. Or even the previous generation. I will agree, however, that early generations were not great in this aspect and that Subaru represents one of the safest vehicle lineups on the planet.

The small overlap front ratings from IIHS, for the 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee are marginal for the driver, poor for the passenger. Acceptable headlights, marginal child latch, good on everything else. So the Jeep probably doesn't qualify as a death trap (depending on what your definition is), but there's no question that the Ascent is certainly a lot better.



https://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/jeep/grand-cherokee-4-door-suv/2018
 

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The small overlap tests were introduced nearly 10 years after the current JGC was designed as I noted previously. I would expect the Ascent to be better for more recent tests for sure! It's a lot newer design. I'm actually glad that the industry is paying more attention to these kinds of collision situations as they are a lot more likely to happen than straight, head-on accidents. This bodes well for future vehicles being even more safe.
 

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Alas, the test info is out many years ahead of the requirements date...

The small overlap tests were introduced nearly 10 years after the current JGC was designed as I noted previously. I would expect the Ascent to be better for more recent tests for sure! It's a lot newer design. I'm actually glad that the industry is paying more attention to these kinds of collision situations as they are a lot more likely to happen than straight, head-on accidents. This bodes well for future vehicles being even more safe.
No, that's not the problem or reason. The test criteria is released many years in advance. Some manufacturers plan ahead to meet or beat the tests, some don't and hope, some don't do anything (Ford Explo is consistently rated at about the same place).

So, for instance, in 2025, third row crash testing becomes a thing. The Ascent is already built and internally tested to meet those requirements. Thus, Subaru won't be playing catch up and failing that test in 2025. They didn't wait.
 

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No, that's not the problem or reason. The test criteria is released many years in advance. Some manufacturers plan ahead to meet or beat the tests, some don't and hope, some don't do anything (Ford Explo is consistently rated at about the same place).

So, for instance, in 2025, third row crash testing becomes a thing. The Ascent is already built and internally tested to meet those requirements. Thus, Subaru won't be playing catch up and failing that test in 2025. They didn't wait.
That's great to know that the vehicle is already compliant with 3rd row safety requirements.
 
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