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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I picked up the CVT mount for the 2.4HT / CVT combo in the Ascent. I made a statement last week when it arrived, that I wasn't that excited about it. I was more excited for sway bar bushings. I had expected the voided area would be similar. Maybe even the same. I decided to pick it up today, I have rubber and I am bored.

Folks, it's time to get excited.

This mount has legs. I mean, literally. (2) extra legs with gussets. (2) extra lower mounting points to the transmission sub-frame. These little gussets are right between the back of the pillow and the sub-frame. This thing is beefy. The pillows are bigger as well.

My end of things, the void looks very similar to the 4/5EAT mount and the 3.6 CVT mount. I bet either one of those inserts would fit just fine. However, the contouring against the flanges would not be perfect. So I will be casting the master insert from this mount.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Progressing Nicely

The CVT insert is progressing according to typical protocol. I was able to produce a perfect "male" copy of the "female" void in the insert. See folks, this how we make babies, with a perfect mate. All digressing aside, This master 2-piece (keyed) mold is cast and curing. I had to d more clay sculpting on this master than the last few I have copied. I must have gotten lazy with the master casting from the stock mount.

I should have a viable production mold in the morning ready to cast the 1st production insert. 16 hour full cure, de-mould and handle in about 8 hours.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Inserts are cast, test mules

I have (2) sets of Ascent CVT mount inserts cast. 50d and 60d, these will be the initial test durometers. I don't think there will be a need for anything harder as I feel it will transfer drive-line NHV back to the cabin. The Ascent CVT mount has a few differences. In addition to slightly different contouring against the flange. The mount is also "deeper", 2mm maybe. I mentioned the pillow blocks are larger, about 2mm over the 3.6R CVT mount. This accounts for the added 2mm in depth.

The test mules...I will need some volunteers who are interested in testing. I ideally I would like a lifted Ascent to test as well. However, I think lift kits (and installs of those kits when available) are a long way off.





 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Aren't you getting a little ahead of yourself? Exactly what problem on the Ascent are you trying to fix?
There is not a problem. Let me say that again, we really don't know yet. This might just be protection against the mount degrading. These inserts are the trickle down product from other Subaru models, all with less power and weight. Several years ago I developed inserts for the 4EAT and 5EAT traditional transmissions. Those are shifting transmissions, there are shift impacts and drive-line "lash" in those systems. Especially once the cars get 40K miles or so on them, the mount starts to degrade. In the 4/5EAT , those of us with performance oriented cars benefit greatly from the extra support with a harder 75d insert. It's just tightens up moments in the drive-train.

In 2010 the Legacy/Outback engine platforms changed.The way the motor mounts and pitch stop changed as well as the addition of the CVT. The 3.6R 5EAT for 2010-2014 uses the same mount as the previous 5EATs. At that point I had no intention of developing a CVT insert. I saw no need, the CVT doesn't slam shifts, I didn't think the CVT would be breaking down the mount in the same way as a traditional automatic. I was wrong. People with 50K miles on their Outback were getting drive-line shudder, even bad CV axle symptoms. The CVT mounts were the issue, degradation and even failure. Aftermarket CV axle manufactures currently list the transmission mount as a common cause of vibration with new axles and an old mount. The CVT applies torque quickly, even though there are no shift slams, the CVT does kick with the initial torque application. I think this initial kick is what is breaking down the CVT mount in a way I didn't expect it would.

And then there is the potential lifted Ascent community. Many of the people who lifted Outback have a common problem. (Regardless of the lift manufacturer) They call it "wobble" or "shimmy" at low speeds. The driveshaft angle gets changes with lift. The (2) piece driveshafts produce vibrations and it was driving people nuts. The lift companies suggested passing the buck and pointing to the transmission mount. I would expect similar experiences for anyone who lifts this SUV. 50d and 60d are soft and basically will just change the mass of the mount and change the way is passes harmonic resonance. 50d and 60d are the best solution for the lifted Outback comummity. I expect the lifted Ascent will be similar.

People have only test driven the Ascent. Nobody has lived with it for 90 days yet. We don;t really know how it's going to behave after the "shine" has worn off. Or how different users may experience the chassis and drive-line integration.

I might be "early". I would not say I am ahead of myself, I certainly won't be late to the party.
 

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Thanks for the detailed and thoughtful explanation. I think I understand what you are saying. Will be interesting to see how the Ascent turns out in this area.
 

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Thanks for doing your due diligence. I'm looking forward to seeing the longevity of the OEM product too in comparison. How does the transmission mount insert get installed, just push it in, or does it require you to actually lift the part to make room to push the thing into the mount?

Keep up the good work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I am still working on R&D on these inserts, I have new information form the land of the Outbacks.

I cast the 4/5EAT from a static mount, anew part. The install process is to remove the mount and press it in with a bench vise. I refined the shape a bit and the 4/5EAT can be installed by hand, sans the benchvise. It takes about an hour.

However, many people have done what has been suggested, The jack the transmission up 1/4' to 1/2", effectively stretching the mount and have been able to pop it in by hand without removing the mount from the car. With a newer vehicle, this method is acceptable. I would not do this method on an 9 year old, the mount will likely tear.

The CVT mount inserts are cast in the same matter, from static mount. The Outback folks using these are overall very satisfied with the results from the insert. However, when you get something 85% solved, some of us still want that last 15%. It has been suggested that I cast an insert with the approximate weight applied to the mount. Compressing it for the casting or a "squished" insert. The hope is, the compressed example gets this product to 100%. The full size CVT inserts can still produce slight vibration on the lifted Outbacks at 70mph. However, all of the lower speed "wobble and shimmy" is quelled. These guys run AT tires also, which I think is contributing factor.

I am planning on having the OB guys test these new compressed mounts and likely will just move ahead with developing a new compressed size fr the Ascent right out of the gate.
 

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And then there is the potential lifted Ascent community. Many of the people who lifted Outback have a common problem. (Regardless of the lift manufacturer) They call it "wobble" or "shimmy" at low speeds. The driveshaft angle gets changes with lift.
Are we talking "massive" (>2") lifts where the rear differential is dropped, or are you saying that the axle shaft angles are creating a vibration that's being transferred through the rear differential and then through the driveshaft to the center differential and transmission?

The Gen 3, Gen 4 and Gen 5 Outbacks use a fixed barely moveable rear differential and a split (with U-joint in the middle) driveshaft from center differential/tranny to rear differential. The axle shafts accommodate the changes in ride height due to lift.

The Ascent's rear differential is also fixed.

I'm asking because I am seriously planning on lifting my Ascent, if ADFs prices are right, and I am trying to understand how it impacts a 1.5" lift. I'm not going spacers on the subframe for the rear diff - which is I think what you're talking about? Like Bruceyyy probably uses on his Outback? I can see that throwing off the angle on the driveshaft.

 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
@Robert.Mauro

I believe the low speed "wobble" in these lifted cars with the dropped subframe does come from the driveshaft angle from the u-joint at the CVT. In the 4WD truck world, we call it "loping"

What you are talking about doing will preserve the driveshaft angle. However, without dropping the rear subframe, you have to stretch the suspension and CV angles. This set up could also produce vibrations. We don't know yet. The CVT mount insert has several benefits. Helping with the lifted guys and the "wobble" was a byproduct. Do think they are on to something, suggesting a "compressed" insert.
 

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Awesome, got it. :)

I so love the idea of a big lift on the Ascent, but it will be my daily driver for 30,000 miles a year, plus adventure. If I didn't do as much daily driving, maybe.
 

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So, since I prefer to use a dealer for my service, what would the ideal play be if I wanted to get this insert installed?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
So, since I prefer to use a dealer for my service, what would the ideal play be if I wanted to get this insert installed?
Well that is hard to say. I think it's an hour job. (which is going to be the minimum charge) Let me hunt down my install PDF. There would be driveshaft tunnel heat-shield like the Outback has. The HS has to come off, that takes 15 min max off and on. If they are the new compressed inserts, they ought to insert by hand without mount removal. So 1 min to force it in.

That should be it.

Or you add 5 min to loosen the keeper nut on the bumper bolt on the mount and jack the trans up 1/4'. Then plop it in.

I can pull my mount and swap an insert in 30min with a set of ramps. But I am not messing with a heatshield. I still think it is no more than an hour job even with pulling the mount. My dealer is $175 per hour for hard wrenching labor. Which this is far from, but who knows what they will do.
 

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Easily a justifiable expense if it helps my mounts last longer and makes it a smoother driving experience. All about cruising in this thing. I'll consider it when the time comes. Thanks!
 

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My son recently bought a used Forester, seemingly in mint condition. However, doesn't drive anywhere near as nice as my new 2018 Crosstrek. Am starting to wonder if there is something worn out in his suspension. Were your bushings also produced for the Forester?
 

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My son recently bought a used Forester, seemingly in mint condition. However, doesn't drive anywhere near as nice as my new 2018 Crosstrek. Am starting to wonder if there is something worn out in his suspension. Were your bushings also produced for the Forester?

The 2018 Crosstrek rides on the new, stiffer, better riding global platform. The earlier Foresters (early 2010s) don't ride nearly the same. They feel stiffer and bouncier (at the same time) to me. The newer ones aren't on the SGP yet either. So far, it's only the Impreza, Crosstrek and Ascent.

It's possible that the new mount would help prevent transferring drivetrain vibration into the body.
 

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The 2018 Crosstrek rides on the new, stiffer, better riding global platform. The earlier Foresters (early 2010s) don't ride nearly the same. They feel stiffer and bouncier (at the same time) to me. The newer ones aren't on the SGP yet either. So far, it's only the Impreza, Crosstrek and Ascent.

It's possible that the new mount would help prevent transferring drivetrain vibration into the body.
No vibration or anything, or even bounciness. Just a rougher ride, and more sway around corners, especially when going over some bumps. Crosstrek is just more solid on the corners, and at the same time, much softer ride over the bumps.


Crosstrek was great off road too, on our rough cabin road. My son is planning to take his Forester up there this weekend, so will see how that goes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
A couple steps forward

Crosstrek was great off road too, on our rough cabin road. My son is planning to take his Forester up there this weekend, so will see how that goes.
I haven't done much work with the Crosstrek. I know folks upgrade the rear sway bar. I have ripped off the Crosstrek front sway bar bushing and straps and modified them for the 2005-2009 Leggy/OB. 2008 WRX/STI/Forester front bar. But That's it.

I have a few developments with the Loaded CVT mount insert. It takes many steps to to get a master mold.



Including sculpting clay to get things right.





I am developing the Ascent CVT mount loaded insert along side the 3.6R loaded insert.



I should have a master mold by the end of day and a protype tomorrow. 3.6R folks will begin testing next week.
 

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It's not the Crosstrek I was asking about, just mentioned that I have the new one (2018), which is on the SGP and all brand new suspension. Totally different than the prev gen Crosstrek.



It is the Forester (2009) that I am asking about, whether there are bushing or mounts available for it, or even a need for them.
 
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