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Can-Am RV Center Advice

14K views 99 replies 16 participants last post by  Robert.Mauro 
#1 ·
Robert, I'm concerned that all my questions are driving you and many on this forum nuts. I feel like I'm a guy that walked into your forum with sh*t on his shoe and there is no ventilation. You all have been very clear on your advice on not using a WDH on the Ascent so please be patient with this newest query.

I called up Can-Am RV Center today and asked them for advice on towing my Airflyte with the Ascent and the man that I talked to, Marshall, unequivocally said that I need a WDH. I explained that the Ascent's owner's manual warned against their use and it was most likely because of the unibody construction and how it can't trasfer the stresses imposed by the WDH through the Ascent. He disagreed explaining that unibody construction is far superior to body-on-frame and it can handle the stresses of a WDH. He said that if there is any stress point on the TV it's most likely the factory installed hitch itself and it would simply need to be strengthened. He said that they do these modifications all of the time. He was also familiar with the Shasta Airflyte and had no doubt that it should be towed with a WDH.

Trust me. This advice is not what I wanted to hear. I wanted to have them confirm your advice and go figure out how to properly balance my trailer to shave off the excess hitch weight.

So I guess my question to you all is how reputable is Can-Am? According to their website, they've been matching tow vehicles and RVs for 45 years and from what I can see online they are highly respected. They also seem agnostic about brand names so they aren't pushing one type of TV or trailer.

Here's their website:


Here's a video of them running a Mercedes towing a trailer through their test course. (Take a look at 2 minutes and 39 seconds in.)

https://www.youtube.chttps://www.canamrv.ca/om/watch?v=Q4b28Fkiubg&feature=emb_logo

They really seem to know what they are doing. I can't believe they run a towed trailer through those kind of maneuvers and I have to admit, I'm impressed.

You guys have been very generous with your time and my intention isn't to annoy all of you with this. I'm just trying to find some kind of consensus. Maybe it simply doesn't exist which seems crazy to me considering what's at stake.

Tim
 
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#2 ·
He's horribly incorrect, and, sadly, if the tongue weight cannot be adjusted, then, that particular trailer and the Ascent may simply not be a suitable combination. I'd be glad to go through the Ascent design and the body weld and repair manual with him, and explain to him why crumple-zone-unibody is absolutely lesser than body on frame for weight distribution. Sorry, but that claim from him is not just absurd, but, as I noted in my "Don't Do" document, the actual experts are where I got that information.

So sorry you're going through this.
 
#9 ·
sadly, if the tongue weight cannot be adjusted, then, that particular trailer and the Ascent may simply not be a suitable combination.
I agree with this strongly. As I mentioned in the other thread, this particular trailer appears to be front biased with weight and if you can't balance it farther back, you're going to be in a bad place.
 
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#3 ·
These are from the experts who make some of the hitches the salesperson will try to sell you:
I called my contact at Progress Manufacturing (creator of Equalizer and FastWay Weight Distribution products) to pick his brain on this topic. He explained that weight distribution (WD) and sway control products rely on leverage to work properly, which requires the body of the vehicle to be rigid enough to withstand the force. Unibody vehicles are typically not as strong or rigid and therefore cannot typically handle the same loads and stresses of a body-on-frame or ladder-style frame vehicle when it comes to towing and using WD or sway control.
The "I" in that is E-Trailer.

The trailer sales guy is hardly the first person to get it horribly backwards, but, for whatever reason it's happening, the car manufacturers and hitch manufacturers disagree with him. They know their products far better than the guy trying to make a buck selling a WDH to band-aid the problem.

And, regardless, it's still over 600 pound tongue weight. A WDH doesn't change the tongue weight - it just changes how it's loaded on the frame/axles.
 
#10 ·
And, regardless, it's still over 600 pound tongue weight. A WDH doesn't change the tongue weight - it just changes how it's loaded on the frame/axles.
Further...the WDH adds to the tongue weight...outside of the Anderson, they are darn heavy things!
 
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#4 ·
IMO, the trailer dealers are not necessarilly bad guys. A WDH can be a very good thing, so recommending one isn't necessarily wrong or deceitful. It's just that Subaru prohibits the use of one on the Ascent. Period. I'd rather it was permissible, but for various reasons it isn't. That said, you can reasonably tow a properly balanced trailer within the Ascents limitations without one.

Tongue weight must be less the 500 lb and should be 10-15% of the loaded trailer weight for best stability while towing. Adjust the loading of the trailer (including water tanks) to achieve this.
 
#5 ·
IMO, the trailer dealers are not necessarilly bad guys. A WDH can be a very good thing, so recommending one isn't necessarily wrong or deceitful. It's just that Subaru prohibits the use of one on the Ascent. Period. I'd rather it was permissible, but for various reasons it isn't. That said, you can reasonably tow a properly balanced trailer within the Ascents limitations without one.

Tongue weight must be less the 500 lb and should be 10-15% of the loaded trailer weight for best stability while towing. Adjust the loading of the trailer (including water tanks) to achieve this.
Right, it's definitely not that they're bad guys.

But this is hardly just the Ascent. It's most unibody cars, especially those with such high tow limits, that are not suited for WDH. For him to literally state the opposite of reality is absurd (though likely him not being a bad guy).

My intent wasn't to characterize him as a bad person - it's just he literally used the structural descriptions of one body type on the other, and vice versa (and sells trailers and hitches).
 
#6 ·
6 years ago, before unibody cars became even more crumply, this guy received answers from Acura, Honda and Richardson RV and an unnamed WDH manufacturer. Other than those people who keep getting things the opposite, the car manufacturers and WDH engineers all say the same thing. You can damage, break or twist the unibody by using one.

Key takeaway: the car manufacturers and hitch manufacturers say the same thing.

Today, I spoke with an Acura factory rep; hitch mfg. guy; Acura regional service rep; Richardsons' RV; and a hitch distributor. Here's the deal as I now know it:

There are several overlapping issues:

1. The MDX has a 5k# towing capacity, but the hitch is limited to a Class III (4K# capacity) only. As you all likely know, if you add a WDH to Class III hitch, it increases its rating to 5K#. BUT, Acura "recommends" that you not use a WDH and that gives you a big disconnect between their advertised 5K# capacity and their "approved" 4K#. To me, this seems to be an issue of false advertising, but someone else will need to fight that battle.

2. According to Honda, the issue with the WDH install is twofold. The underframe of a Unibody constructed vehicle has nowhere near the strength of the old fashioned frames most of us grew up with. This means that a WDH could possibly add enough leverage to twist the frame. Acura says that the second issue is that the MDX pulls more from the front (even with AWD or 4WD) and that, too, can cause issues with the WDH. (I don't know . . . I think I stopped listening after the part about the frame twisting.)

BTW, the Acura factory rep said that he has photos to prove the twisting, but is not allowed to share those. The conversation was recorded with full ID given on both sides (including my VIN) and documented with a case #, so I have no reason to doubt him.

Acura also says that the installation of the WDH in itself does NOT void the warranty, BUT if there is an incident that causes the frame to twist, then that would not be covered by warranty.

3. Acura dealerships can install Class III (2" receivers) only. If you decide to go the Class III with a WDH route, it will need to be done by another shop.

4. Then there is the issue of the Acura tow package component of the Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA) which I mistakenly called TSA in an earlier post. The manufacturer says that the Equalizer with 4 pt. sway control will eliminate the sway that causes the VSA to engage. There is also a switch that can turn it off.

All of the above was confirmed by the hitch distributor, etc. Richardson's double checked my research and confirmed what they could and were surprised at some of it; the Acura service guy was a bit clueless but knew they could not install anything other than what is listed above; and the Acura factory guy listened, understood, had experience with, and was able to explain all of the above from their POV and their policy.
 
#8 ·
^^^
Interesting about the pulling from the front with AWD. The Ascent is a 60/40 front/back split until the computers redirect off the readings they get.
While the rear squats under tow or cargo load, I kinda have a feeling that the actual axle loads stay near even when towing. It starts 54/46 front biased. Probably shifts to 47/53. So, the power balance probably works well.
 
#11 ·
TimGee,

I don’t really tow with my Ascent, I have a pickup for that, but if I needed to I would not hesitate. But if I was in your situation I would ask myself is it safe and if something goes wrong with the Ascent while towing with a WDH how bad can it be and who has to pay for the repair.

Subjecting the Ascent to forces and loads it is not designed for sounds not so good to me. What’s the worst that can happen? Stress cracks and perhaps catastrophic structural failure while driving with a trailer in the structural components. I did say worst case and let your imagination run with what happens in this one. So what is the likely hood of the worst case scenario? Unknown. So we have a huge consequence and an unknown risk. Considering the down side I would want to gamble and take a risk like that.

Now let’s say you let the trailer sales guy talk you into it. If something goes structurally wrong with your Ascent, will the trailer company fix or replace your Ascent. Not likely. Will Subaru say oh well you used a WDH and you were strongly warned by Subaru not to but no big deal we will fix your Ascent under warranty. Not likely. So now your stuck with a repair bill.

You might get a few folks on forums telling you it’s no big deal but it can get ugly quickly.
 
#12 ·
TimGee,

I don’t really tow with my Ascent, I have a pickup for that, but if I needed to I would not hesitate. But if I was in your situation I would ask myself is it safe and if something goes wrong with the Ascent while towing with a WDH how bad can it be and who has to pay for the repair.

Subjecting the Ascent to forces and loads it is not designed for sounds not so good to me. What’s the worst that can happen? Stress cracks and perhaps catastrophic structural failure while driving with a trailer in the structural components. I did say worst case and let your imagination run with what happens in this one. So what is the likely hood of the worst case scenario? Unknown. So we have a huge consequence and an unknown risk. Considering the down side I would want to gamble and take a risk like that.

Now let’s say you let the trailer sales guy talk you into it. If something goes structurally wrong with your Ascent, will the trailer company fix or replace your Ascent. Not likely. Will Subaru say oh well you used a WDH and you were strongly warned by Subaru not to but no big deal we will fix your Ascent under warranty. Not likely. So now your stuck with a repair bill.

You might get a few folks on forums telling you it’s no big deal but it can get ugly quickly.
Thank you guys. I appreciate all the advice even though it's not what I wanted to hear. Safety is paramount.

Tim
 
#17 ·
@TimGee, please don't trust RV dealers with your safety, I can't tell you how much bad and misleading advice I've received from some in the year that I've been researching RVs, even from factory reps. Some may intentionally mislead to make sales while others may think they know what they're talking about but really don't. I've never experienced so much questionable advice from any other types of dealers. It's been eye-opening and I now do all my own research and do not listen to these dealers no matter how authoritative they may sound. These dealers and salesmen are not automotive engineers, some may have never graduated high school. Always carefully consider the source whenever anyone gives you advice especially when you get conflicting advice. Do your own research and trust the preponderance of the facts rather than any individual source.

In the case of WDH's they're applying decades of dealing with frame-on-body vehicles to the latest unibody vehicles which is basically malpractice in my opinion. They won't take responsibility if you develop stress cracks in your frame that won't be covered under warranty if you use a WDH. Newer unibody vehicles have frames carefully and specifically engineered and optimized for lower weight, flexibility, better mpg, and crash safety via crumple zones. These may not be compatible with WDH's designed primarily for frame-on-body vehicles.

The issue is moot because you simply don't need a WDH to safely tow as many here have mentioned before. I don't know why you think you do. No one here has anything to gain from giving you this advice and no one here would intentionally mislead you. We're just trying to help.
 
#20 ·
@TimGee, please don't trust RV dealers with your safety, I can't tell you how much bad and misleading advice I've received from some in the year that I've been researching RVs, even from factory reps.

The issue is moot because you simply don't need a WDH to safely tow as many here have mentioned before. I don't know why you think you do. No one here has anything to gain from giving you this advice and no one here would intentionally mislead you. We're just trying to help.
Let me address your second point first. I truly appreciate all the advice that I'm getting on this forum and I am in no way discounting it and I am certainly not leaning towards putting a WDH on the Ascent. As you advised, I'm just gathering sources of information and trying to make the best informed decision possible and not taking anyone's word on this. The frustrating thing is I'm hearing diametrically opposed opinions and that just forces me to keep asking questions. Trust me. I wish I had a clear path forward.

As to your first point about RV dealers. Please check out the link I posted for Can-Am RV. I think it is a mistake to dismiss them as a bunch of sales guys just trying to sell product. These guys are in the business of matching trailers to tow vehicles. They do more than sell hitches and RVs but I'm not engineer or mechanic so that's why I started this thread to ask your advice on what you think about these guys. With my layman's eyes they seem to re-design tow vehicles to match the trailer and then test it out on their obstacle course. There the only ones that do it in N. Ameria as far as I know. I would really value everyone's opinion on what Can-Am does as I think they go beyond just selling product.

But the big point here is that I have no doubt that you all are giving me good advice. And it's something that I really appreciate.
 
#21 ·
I'm going to go against the grain here, Can-Am knows what they are doing and saying. Noone here has their reputation and experience in the towing industry. If everyone would take a step back and see exactly what Can-am said, the hitch needs to be strengthened or modified to be able to use a WDH. Their reputation in the RV industry is the absolute best, bar-none.

They arent trying to sell you an off the shelf hitch, they custom make them for your vehicle and rig. And they are right about unibody construction, it's not weak. I dont care how many weld manuals you look through. Can-Am has outfitted hundreds of vehicles with unibody structures for heavy duty towing and the results speak for themselves. I was actually hoping to hear something related to an ascent from them at some point, but they are a bit too far north of me.
 
#23 ·
I'm going to go against the grain here, Can-Am knows what they are doing and saying. Noone here has their reputation and experience in the towing industry. If everyone would take a step back and see exactly what Can-am said, the hitch needs to be strengthened or modified to be able to use a WDH. Their reputation in the RV industry is the absolute best, bar-none
Absolutely no such work legally accounts for the tongue weight without government recertification.

The statement about unibody being stiffer and more suited to a WDH over body on frame is absurd.

And, to date, NO ONE has come up with a body reinforcement plan for the Ascent to allow a WDH. I can show you the stress points that are designed for downward weight across the sub frames, which is drastically different that pulling the subframe away from the car as a WDH does. And seriously, that would add a considerable amount of weight and eat into ground clearance.

Nothing against Can Am, but the guy needs to be retrained. He's flat out wrong.
 
#29 · (Edited)
I don't feel it's a personal attack, your earlier snide reply aside. As I said, I expect people will believe the MANUFACTURERS of virtually every unibody car out there, as well as the MANUFACTURERS of virtually every weight distributing hitch out there before believing some guy who happens to work for Can-Am.

Regardless, you're ignoring that point/question.

So, I ask again:
You're literally arguing that the people who made the car are wrong? And Acura? And Honda? And Toyota? And Hyundai? And Ford? And GM? And Fastway? But, ONE guy from Can-Am, who doesn't know what a unibody is, is correct?

Is that your argument? Because that's what it boils down to. This has nothing to do with me, your remarks aside trying to make it about me - my response about me was secondary, and in response to you being snide. That's why I bolded this: "But, I am not asking you to believe me. I am asking people to believe the car manufacturers and weight distributing hitch manufacturers."
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: whatever you need to tell yourself.

So, I ask you again, are Subaru, Ford, Toyota, Hyundai, GM, Honda and Acura and Fastway and Richardson all wrong?
 
#31 ·
Would this be Can-Am's first Ascent mod? Who knows more about the engineering of the unibody in the Ascent - Subaru or Can-Am?

Since you can't answer your own question (much less whether Can-Am has tested it on the Ascent), and since the answers to mine are "yes" and "Subaru", I am not sure why you are belaboring this point. You're literally telling people to believe Can-Am over Subaru with those points outstanding or what they are.

And I think avoiding answering my question pretty much says it all. Have a great day.
 
#40 ·
Can-am uses a 2015+ wrx for towing, that's has the SGP, is that relevant enough.

I dont believe Subaru ever tested a WDH on the ascent at all. So they simply are going to say dont use one, period. They certainly didn't design the Ascent or the SGP in general to be so weak it will fall apart by transmitting weight forward in it and if the hitch is too weak for that, Can-Am advised getting it reinforced or modified.
 
#42 · (Edited)
Can-am uses a 2015+ wrx for towing, that's has the SGP, is that relevant enough.
No. The WRX gets SGP in 2020. The first Subaru on the SGP was the 2018 Impreza in 2017. The Impreza/Crosstrek and WRX lines diverged a while ago. Heck, there's even two versions of the Outback. Regardless, even if they tested on an Impreza, the Ascent SGP is considerably modified.

I dont believe Subaru ever tested a WDH on the ascent at all.
That'd be an incorrect guess.

So they simply are going to say dont use one, period. They certainly didn't design the Ascent or the SGP in general to be so weak it will fall apart by transmitting weight forward in it
You forget that the front suspension is the lowest rated. The GAWR-R is higher, by 275 pounds, even though the Ascent is front biased unloaded at 54%/46%. Exceeding GAWR-F by transferring weight forward is illegal. Additionally, tongue weight doesn't change because of how weight is shifted front or rear. Any weight transfer device would have to keep enough weight on the rear.

and if the hitch is too weak for that, Can-Am advised getting it reinforced or modified.
Sure, at tremendous cost, right?
 
#43 · (Edited)
I suggest you use this list. Please see my reply directly above - your list is a little off.
  • 2018 Impreza in latter 2017
  • 2018 Crosstrek in latter 2017
  • 2019 Ascent in mid/latter 2018
  • 2019 Forester in latter 2018
  • 2020 Outback/Leggy in latter 2019
Pending:
  • 2021 WRX (or 2022?) in 2020 or 2021.
That only applies to North American models, btw. For instance, the 2020 Outback for Australia is not on the SGP. It's what we would consider Gen 5 Outback.
 
#45 · (Edited)
My setup transferrred 160 lbs from the steer axle to the drive, with only 400 lbs added to the vehicle via the trailer tongue.

Where is the test data for a WDH on the Ascent?
LOL, c'mon, you absolutely know that if I had test data, I couldn't share it, and, if I'd seen test data, I couldn't recount the results.

Regardless, two Ascent test mules were used, starting in 2017, using a WDH. A white mule and a blue mule. They started rolling around mid 2017, IIRC. They got thousands of miles of towing. They also got used for much of the early commercial footage.

Here's the white one, which, IIRC, was used with and without a WDH. You can see the where chains from the torsion bar connects to this trailer.
4330


And the blue one
4331

4334


ALL of the 2017 test mule and Airstream shots and tests DO have the WDH. Every time they were spotted out racking up test miles, they had the WDH.
4337



----------------------------------------------------------------

On to the transition to the Demo Cars...
ALL of the reshot promo shots do not have the WDH.


4336


FUN FACT:
The pre-production test mules from 2017 came with different rear covers, different ball mounts, and a few other differences from the final production model. Some place, I have some of the pre-production docs on those items (that never made it to production).

The Demo Cars:
In 2018, when the pre-production demo cars were built and sent out, every single demo car that went out with that Airstream 22FB used just ball, hitch, chains and power. These cars are as close to production as one can get (outside of the actual production run, which started a few months later). There was no WDH on any of them anywhere in the country. At around the same time, the preliminary version of the manual and vehicle brochure booklet came out, which then indicated no WDH of any kind.

FUN FACT #2:
I got sent much of that pre-production information, and STILL have the Ascent brochure in both printed and digital format that erroneously lists the cargo space as 72.6/71.8 cu feet. I reported it and it was fixed for the final versions.


4332


Here's the pre-production red demo car making rounds elsewhere with different reviewers.
4333


Red demo on another test
4335

That single setup alone traveled all over the country, (and a couple of other setups (different Ascent, different trailer), but, as I said, never with a WDH. The test mules, I mentioned above were the last to be used with a WDH.

4338


You'd never see Subaru using a WDH in any demo tests or commercial photos & video again.
4339
 
#49 ·
So, they currently have no test data, no testing, and no guarantee that using one will not damage the Ascent unibody. That currently leaves Subaru as the only company who's done such tests. I will continue to trust Subaru's engineers.
 
#62 · (Edited)
Robert you're never going to convince some people to not use a WDH. Hopefully when they have damaged their SUV they can sue the RV dealer and maybe the people in this forum working so hard to convince them to go against the owners manual. I for one appreciate your passion for the topic. Any person or dealer telling someone to blatantly disregard the owners manual is definitely putting themself at risk for a lawsuit. It would not surprise me to find out that Can-Am RV makes you sign a waiver that they are not responsible for damage caused by towing. It's probably in the fine print on the sales receipt.
 
#65 ·
I've only asked for the data to prove the Ascent failed with a WDH that Robert seems to believe exists. Barring that I am more apt to believe the towing experts, over a CYA in an owners manual. If you actually read that book, we disregard plenty of other things in there as well, city driving is considered severe duty who uses that OCI, I don't. No Rain-X on the windshield, tried that for a few weeks, guess you who couldn't see in the rain along with the eyesight cameras, this guy. So we use Rain-X. My favorite subject for safety, especially in this vehicle with Eyesight and all the other nannies would be suspension and ECU tuning. Who knows how much messing with those things throws off Safety system calibrations and could lead to disastrous consequences. Life is full of what-ifs. Noone here is suggesting throwing on some 1k lb spring bars and towing a park model across a mountain range. Just adding a substantial hitch upgrade in order to get a trailer that is within the parameters of the Ascents ratings to tow straight and safely.

And I will add, it is one thing to quote the manual and speak your piece and very much another to troll every post on the subject to the point people aren't feeling welcome for having experience and an opinion on the subject.
 
#70 · (Edited)
Well, in COBB's case, I know the programmed safety margin that LuK originally designed into the CVT code (COBB hasn't exceeded it), and, I've indeed warned people, many times, against exceeding what COBB did if they go for a protune, or towing on the 93 tune.

The difference, Ruben, is that NO ONE disputed it, much less repeatedly. 😉
 
#71 ·
I've never denied it COULD cause damage, merely that it is guaranteed to especially given the experiences I presented. Worst case scenarios when you mess with ECM tuning is certainly not just a blown engine, that's like saying the worst thing that happens when your car shuts off is it wont move, remember those deaths from the GM ignition failures...anyone can pluck doomsday scenarios for any failure no matter how likely or unlikely.

If we are going to apply a logic of reasoning then it should be consistent. The owner's manual states only the supplied towing equipment is to be used. So anything not supplied by Subaru would be grounds to deny any warranty to do with the hitch.
 
#72 ·
This entire discussion is moot. There is no need for a WDH on the Ascent to tow safely with a properly matched and loaded trailer, so what's the point of discussing whether it's safe to use one? This is like discussing whether it's safe to install dual rear tires on an Ascent for better load capabilities. There's simply no need for it to begin with if you choose a properly sized trailer and load it correctly.

I don't see any Ascent owners who are properly towing travel trailers or other trailers complaining about unsafe situations. I haven't towed a travel trailer yet, but I regularly tow two boat trailers, a large utility trailer, and a backhoe, all within the Ascent's limits, and all without a WDH. No issues whatsoever, the Ascent has been a superb tow vehicle for me. The vast majority of people here are also reporting excellent results towing trailers of all suitable types and sizes with the Ascent. So why should anyone here want or require a WDH? It's an unnecessary piece of useless aftermarket equipment in this case. The Ascent has been properly designed as an excellent tow vehicle for its class without the need for one, a fact we should all be grateful for.

A WDH, in my opinion, is a mechanical crutch specifically designed to attempt to extend towing capabilities beyond a vehicle's inherent safe towing capabilities. No well-designed tow vehicle should need to use one when correctly matched to a properly loaded trailer. If a tow vehicle requires a WDH for a suitable, matched, properly loaded trailer, then, unlike the Ascent, it wasn't well designed in the first place because it requires external third-party components to safely tow a trailer and cannot perform this inherently. Sadly, this is the case with some vehicles. This fact, and the fact that people all too often choose trailers without adequate safety margins and/or improperly load them, make WDH's very popular to compensate for these unsafe practices. RV dealers and businesses like Can-Am love and live by them because WDH's significantly improve their sales potentials by greatly extending the range of what they can recommend and sell. It's their primary go-to/catch-all solution. It allows them to recommend trailers that would normally be beyond the inherent safe limits of their customer's tow vehicles and/or for customers who do not know enough or care enough to load trailers properly. Is this a good thing? You decide. But don't even try to criticize or debate WDH's with many of these RV businesses. In their mind, you'll be endangering a major portion of their sales and you'll be a heretic in their eyes. This I've learned firsthand. WDH's are their bread and butter and they'll defend and recommended them passionately to the end. This, however, doesn't mean they're right for you.

Again, the primary use of a WDH is often to attempt to compensate for potentially unsafe towing situations as when uninformed or uncaring people use a trailer unsuited to their tow vehicle or improperly load a trailer. Anyone relying on a WDH for towing may be pushing the safety limits of their tow vehicle beyond what it can accomplish alone. If anyone is really concerned about towing safety, then relying on a WDH to resolve a situation where a trailer is improperly inherently matched to a tow vehicle or improperly loaded is not a good solution. Rather, it's a hack to compensate for an otherwise unsafe situation. It's far better and safer never to need one in the first place by simply selecting the proper trailer for the tow vehicle and loading it correctly. That's the safest scenario, certainly better than adding some aftermarket crutch device to attempt to compensate for potentially unsafe loads.

Additionally, if you're adding a WDH to a vehicle/trailer combo that does not require one at all, you're not improving safety, you're just wasting your money and unnecessarily complicating your setup. In the case of the Ascent, you also may be potentially severely damaging your frame. Who wants to risk that over an unnecessary device?

The Ascent is well engineered and well proven to be able to safely tow properly matched and loaded trailers without a WDH. That's a fact. Any discussion on using or requiring a WDH is simply moot in these circumstances. If you're in a situation where you require a WDH with the Ascent to tow a trailer because you can't safely stay within its towing specifications, then either choose another trailer or find a tow vehicle suitable to the trailer you wish to tow because you're beyond the safe inherent tow limits of the Ascent. If you stay within the limits, no WDH is required or should ever be used, and no further consideration is necessary.
 
#73 ·
@pro10is stated it much better than I did. There's one thing though... can we have a pic of that backhoe being towed? That sounds awesome!

... I regularly tow two boat trailers, a large utility trailer, and a backhoe, all within the Ascent's limits, and all without a WDH. No issues whatsoever, the Ascent has been a superb tow vehicle for me...
 
#77 ·
I believe what people are saying is that if you have the right-sized trailer for the Ascent, then you have no reason for even considering a WDH. In my opinion, any trailer being considered for towing with the Ascent shouldn't be one that you have to reconfigure each and every time you hitch it to your tow vehicle. I personally wouldn't want to have to relocate cargo, to include my propane tank(s), to the rear of the trailer to ensure the tongue weight was within specs. For me, that's too much work as I often am on the road with my camper for several weeks at a time, often moving every day or so. If I had to move my propane tank to the rear of the trailer every time I moved, and/or move stuff in cabinets in the forward part of the trailer to the rear, I'd either choose another trailer or get another, more capable tow vehicle. I do agree, however, that WDH's have their place in the greater scheme of things, but towing with the Ascent has its limitations, and a WDH is not going to be able to provide the help that it might provide some other vehicle preparing to tow something at the outer limits of its stock capabilities.
 
#89 ·
I took a look at the Hensley website and videos and think that it is an ingenious piece of hardware. If I were using a full frame vehicle that needed a WDH, I'd consider it. However, since any of the full frame vehicles that I'd consider owning are all pickup trucks, I'd be more inclined to go 5th wheel anyway.

Just to play devil's advocate/lawyer, they mention side forces and road surfaces as possible initiators of sway. I didn't do an exhaustive review of the site and wonder about other sway initiators such as a blowout in the trailer, or blowout on the tow vehicle.

Based on the concept of locking the hitch against lateral forces coming from behind the tow vehicle's rear axle, they are essentially converting your 3 axle vehicle+trailer system into a 2 axle system. Do their operating instructions advise to turn off vehicle stability control? They say that they transfer the lateral forces from the trailer to the tow vehicle's front axle. Will vehicle stability control system respond correctly to an unexpected force?

It doesn't appear that Hensley makes a version that isn't WDH
 
#91 ·
The Hensley can be used without weight distributing bars. And if there is no sway the systems would never be activated by the TV so no need to turn them off. What the Hensley and Propride systems do is move the turning point the rear axle of the TV while the Tv and trailer are straight, when turning the dual cam system turns like a normal hitch would.
 
#93 ·
Problem is this: I've towed my 2600 lb dry weight trailer with, and without the sway bars, and there is a HUGE difference. Without the sway bars, the movement was noticeable above 50mph even with no wind. With the sway bars, the ride was quiet and smooth with zero movement, even at speeds up to 65-70mph.
 
#94 ·
Do you have a pic of how it sits on the ball? I pull a lot more than that, without such issues, as long as I load properly. A WDH definitely hides (not "helps") loading errors and hitch height errors. Forcing the "huge difference" motion up the frame with a WDH isn't a good idea. Perhaps let's look at loading and ball height?

There are other ways to make it "quiet" (hitch clamp) that won't run the risk of damaging your unibody.
 
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