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I will shoot them an email tonight, I will even highlight the SGP underpinned Subaru models so we can see what their recommendation would be. Their towing videos make me want to get an airstream, and have them set it up.
 

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Can-am uses a 2015+ wrx for towing, that's has the SGP, is that relevant enough.
No. The WRX gets SGP in 2020. The first Subaru on the SGP was the 2018 Impreza in 2017. The Impreza/Crosstrek and WRX lines diverged a while ago. Heck, there's even two versions of the Outback. Regardless, even if they tested on an Impreza, the Ascent SGP is considerably modified.

I dont believe Subaru ever tested a WDH on the ascent at all.
That'd be an incorrect guess.

So they simply are going to say dont use one, period. They certainly didn't design the Ascent or the SGP in general to be so weak it will fall apart by transmitting weight forward in it
You forget that the front suspension is the lowest rated. The GAWR-R is higher, by 275 pounds, even though the Ascent is front biased unloaded at 54%/46%. Exceeding GAWR-F by transferring weight forward is illegal. Additionally, tongue weight doesn't change because of how weight is shifted front or rear. Any weight transfer device would have to keep enough weight on the rear.

and if the hitch is too weak for that, Can-Am advised getting it reinforced or modified.
Sure, at tremendous cost, right?
 

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I will shoot them an email tonight, I will even highlight the SGP underpinned Subaru models so we can see what their recommendation would be. Their towing videos make me want to get an airstream, and have them set it up.
I suggest you use this list. Please see my reply directly above - your list is a little off.
  • 2018 Impreza in latter 2017
  • 2018 Crosstrek in latter 2017
  • 2019 Ascent in mid/latter 2018
  • 2019 Forester in latter 2018
  • 2020 Outback/Leggy in latter 2019
Pending:
  • 2021 WRX (or 2022?) in 2020 or 2021.
That only applies to North American models, btw. For instance, the 2020 Outback for Australia is not on the SGP. It's what we would consider Gen 5 Outback.
 

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My setup transferrred 160 lbs from the steer axle to the drive, with only 400 lbs added to the vehicle via the trailer tongue.

Where is the test data for a WDH on the Ascent?
LOL, c'mon, you absolutely know that if I had test data, I couldn't share it, and, if I'd seen test data, I couldn't recount the results.

Regardless, two Ascent test mules were used, starting in 2017, using a WDH. A white mule and a blue mule. They started rolling around mid 2017, IIRC. They got thousands of miles of towing. They also got used for much of the early commercial footage.

Here's the white one, which, IIRC, was used with and without a WDH. You can see the where chains from the torsion bar connects to this trailer.
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And the blue one
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ALL of the 2017 test mule and Airstream shots and tests DO have the WDH. Every time they were spotted out racking up test miles, they had the WDH.
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On to the transition to the Demo Cars...
ALL of the reshot promo shots do not have the WDH.


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FUN FACT:
The pre-production test mules from 2017 came with different rear covers, different ball mounts, and a few other differences from the final production model. Some place, I have some of the pre-production docs on those items (that never made it to production).

The Demo Cars:
In 2018, when the pre-production demo cars were built and sent out, every single demo car that went out with that Airstream 22FB used just ball, hitch, chains and power. These cars are as close to production as one can get (outside of the actual production run, which started a few months later). There was no WDH on any of them anywhere in the country. At around the same time, the preliminary version of the manual and vehicle brochure booklet came out, which then indicated no WDH of any kind.

FUN FACT #2:
I got sent much of that pre-production information, and STILL have the Ascent brochure in both printed and digital format that erroneously lists the cargo space as 72.6/71.8 cu feet. I reported it and it was fixed for the final versions.


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Here's the pre-production red demo car making rounds elsewhere with different reviewers.
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Red demo on another test
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That single setup alone traveled all over the country, (and a couple of other setups (different Ascent, different trailer), but, as I said, never with a WDH. The test mules, I mentioned above were the last to be used with a WDH.

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You'd never see Subaru using a WDH in any demo tests or commercial photos & video again.
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Jim, If I could get the tongue weight down to 500lbs and used the Anderson hitch (weighs under 60 lbs) could I stay with the V6? That would be around 600lbs tongue weight. .
No, we don't hate your trailer...but we are concerned about you safely towing it!

To your specific question, if you can get the tongue weight figured out, you could tow with the JGC v6 and the Anderson WDH and have some margin, but the wind resistance is still going to be a bear from the retro-design. Personally, I'd opt for the V8 for this towing task, but there are people using the V6 cheerfully. I'm not hating here...your trailer characteristics are what they are. Most folks towing travel trailers with mid-size SUVs are benefiting from the newer aerodynamic designs of light-weight trailers, regardless of which SUV they choose.
 

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FUN FACT #2:
I got sent much of that pre-production information, and STILL have the Ascent brochure in both printed and digital format that erroneously lists the cargo space as 72.6/71.8 cu feet. I reported it and it was fixed for the final versions.
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I received an email reply back from Can-Am. They have indeed set up WDH on the Ascent with good results and no issues to date. Along with setting up 100s of other Subaru vehicles over they years.
 

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I received an email reply back from Can-Am. They have indeed set up WDH on the Ascent with good results and no issues to date. Along with setting up 100s of other Subaru vehicles over they years.
So, they currently have no test data, no testing, and no guarantee that using one will not damage the Ascent unibody. That currently leaves Subaru as the only company who's done such tests. I will continue to trust Subaru's engineers.
 

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So, they currently have no test data, no testing, and no guarantee that using one will not damage the Ascent unibody. That currently leaves Subaru as the only company who's done such tests. I will continue to trust Subaru's engineers.
I've seen NO data from either side. I have seen great reviews from Can-Ams customers on how well their set ups tow. I also know how much of an owner's manual is a CYA as much as anything, written by as many lawyers as engineers if not more. If the OM was truth carved in stone we would all be driving stocker than stock vehicles and dealing with the compromises that come with mass produced goods.
 

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I've seen NO data from either side. I have seen great reviews from Can-Ams customers on how well their set ups tow. I also know how much of an owner's manual is a CYA as much as anything, written by as many lawyers as engineers if not more. If the OM was truth carved in stone we would all be driving stocker than stock vehicles and dealing with the compromises that come with mass produced goods.
One hitch on one Ascent with the guy not coming back to complain is not testing. Regardless of whether you've seen testing results from Subaru, we know Subaru's done thousands of miles towing with their test mules. To expect to see the test data is really silly. There's a gazillion other test results various specs are based on that Subaru also hasn't shared with you either - yet we believe them on those items.

Also, hundreds of other far lower tow rating of other Subarus is not the Ascent. No other Subaru has come close to its tow capacity.

People can choose to believe Subaru's engineers, or believe that since there's one guy out there with one hitch, who hasn't complained (yet?), that it's ok to ignore Subaru's engineers.

Maybe sticking one WDH on one Ascent helped them to learn more than Subaru's engineers, and, everyone can decide whether they think so or not. Again, as I said, people can decide what they want. I made my choice, and we stowed the WDH we used on the F150 and Suburban, and never used it on the Ascent.
 

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One hitch on one Ascent with the guy not coming back to complain is not testing. Regardless of whether you've seen testing results from Subaru, we know Subaru's done thousands of miles towing with their test mules. To expect to see the test data is really silly. There's a gazillion other test results various specs are based on that Subaru also hasn't shared with you either - yet we believe them on those items.

Also, hundreds of other far lower tow rating of other Subarus is not the Ascent. No other Subaru has come close to its tow capacity.

People can choose to believe Subaru's engineers, or believe that since there's one guy out there with one hitch, who hasn't complained (yet?), that it's ok to ignore Subaru's engineers.

Maybe sticking one WDH on one Ascent helped them to learn more than Subaru's engineers, and, everyone can decide whether they think so or not. Again, as I said, people can decide what they want. I made my choice, and we stowed the WDH we used on the F150 and Suburban, and never used it on the Ascent.
Who said one? The reply I received said several, certainly more than one. And again we arent talking about an every day tow rig we are talking about a vacation here and there. If transferring a 100 lbs back to the steering axle is going to break the Ascent maybe it shouldnt be rated for towing at all since it's so fragile.
 

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Who said one? The reply I received said several, certainly more than one. And again we arent talking about an every day tow rig we are talking about a vacation here and there. If transferring a 100 lbs back to the steering axle is going to break the Ascent maybe it shouldnt be rated for towing at all since it's so fragile.
"If misusing a vehicle might damage it, then people shouldn't use the vehicle at all" - that's what your argument means.

And, transferring a hundred pounds? Static load isn't what a WDH really handles. It's dynamic load from everything that creates sway and vertical undulations, and to alleviate poor loading. That can be many times the force of static load transfer.
 

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"If misusing a vehicle might damage it, then people shouldn't use the vehicle at all" - that's what your argument means.

And, transferring a hundred pounds? Static load isn't what a WDH really handles. It's dynamic load from everything that creates sway and vertical undulations from poor loading. That can be many times the force of static load transfer.
Let me preface by saying that I'm sure that Can Am has accurately stated that they have successfully designed, installed and tested a WDH in an Ascent and other Subarus.

What I'd like to know is have they done advanced stress cycle testing on an installed setup? I'd like to see if they have an Ascent or any other unibody/sub-frame vehicle where they have attached vibration and stress sensors onto the hitch, subframe and unibody and run the vehicle and trailer on a road simulator. This is how manufacturers test new vehicles before ever building the first production product. It's how manufacturers say they have done a million or a billion miles of testing. There are facilities that do this kind of work, I've worked on the computer side of this for race teams
 

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"If misusing a vehicle might damage it, then people shouldn't use the vehicle at all" - that's what your argument means.

And, transferring a hundred pounds? Static load isn't what a WDH really handles. It's dynamic load from everything that creates sway and vertical undulations, and to alleviate poor loading. That can be many times the force of static load transfer.
You don't do sarcasm do you?

According to your logic:
"Manufacturer says dont do it, so you cannot do it."

But I haven't seen that logic flow over into the other sections on this forum. For some reason you choose to hammer on this very specific one.
 

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Let me preface by saying that I'm sure that Can Am has accurately stated that they have successfully designed, installed and tested a WDH in an Ascent and other Subarus.

What I'd like to know is have they done advanced stress cycle testing on an installed setup? I'd like to see if they have an Ascent or any other unibody/sub-frame vehicle where they have attached vibration and stress sensors onto the hitch, subframe and unibody and run the vehicle and trailer on a road simulator. This is how manufacturers test new vehicles before ever building the first production product. It's how manufacturers say they have done a million or a billion miles of testing. There are facilities that do this kind of work, I've worked on the computer side of this for race teams
Thank you for this. I did not do a good job of clarifying the differences - and you just did.
 

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You don't do sarcasm do you?
No, not in text about something that can potentially be a serious safety issue. Emphasis on "potentially" because, honestly, we don't know what'll happen in a few thousand miles, or what the repercussions are. So, I tend not to see it in what I thought was supposed to be a helpful conversation for others. Sorry I missed it.

But I haven't seen that logic flow over into the other sections on this forum. For some reason you choose to hammer on this very specific one.
Sure you have. Changing a car tire to something with the same ratings isn't ignoring Subaru's engineers. I don't care in the least. Go stick an STI rim on the Ascent, and I will let you know it's a very bad idea (and, yeah, I reached out to the product team of the company that makes them for Subaru, since I know who they are).

Slapping 20% tint on the front windshield is - and I'm adamant about what that does too, especially since I know how the imaging systems work - but feel free to compromise the system. If someone reiterates that it doesn't do anything to the system capabilities, THEN I will continue to post that's false. People can choose to compromise the system if they want - but from a fully informed position.

Choosing not to use Eyesight? Your choice, I don't care.

Using Motul oil isn't failing to do something that's safety related (much less doing something outside of the manufacturer specs), so, whatever, I don't care.

I am very very selective about what topics I am adamant on, and am fully supportive of people modding their cars in safe ways. Heck, they can do whatever the heck they want - but with accurate and unbiased information.

FACT is, Subaru has done this, and truly tested (See titan's post above) on test mules. CanAm has not. FACT is, Subaru's engineers say not to do it, even though they started out using WDHs. You're literally choosing to ignore points you don't like because "they put one or maybe more WDH's on one or maybe more Ascents, and no one has complained yet". You're beating a dead horse and came back with no new information. And, you've been unable to find a single thing that contradicts me.

Honestly, we're just going in circle. Subaru's answer is STILL the same, and no new information has come up - but you continue to revive the thread anyway.
 

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Let me preface by saying that I'm sure that Can Am has accurately stated that they have successfully designed, installed and tested a WDH in an Ascent and other Subarus.

What I'd like to know is have they done advanced stress cycle testing on an installed setup? I'd like to see if they have an Ascent or any other unibody/sub-frame vehicle where they have attached vibration and stress sensors onto the hitch, subframe and unibody and run the vehicle and trailer on a road simulator. This is how manufacturers test new vehicles before ever building the first production product. It's how manufacturers say they have done a million or a billion miles of testing. There are facilities that do this kind of work, I've worked on the computer side of this for race teams
You need only do a quick search of Can-Am RV towing to get your answer.
 

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