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Hello. I'm new to this forum. Our 2019 Ascent first went in for the front brakes grinding and pulsating at only 18,000 miles. We have had it in for brake service 4 times since. Tomorrow will be the 5th time we had to bring it in for the same issue. How many times do we need to take our ascent in for this issue before it falls under the lemon law?
 

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Hello. I'm new to this forum. Our 2019 Ascent first went in for the front brakes grinding and pulsating at only 18,000 miles. We have had it in for brake service 4 times since. Tomorrow will be the 5th time we had to bring it in for the same issue. How many times do we need to take our ascent in for this issue before it falls under the lemon law?
lemon laws vary by state.

have you contacted Subaru of America? If you have not, that would be my next step. let them know the history and status.

It would be helpful to read what specific repairs were done for each of the four times at the dealership.
 

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I agree with @packout. If you can, post the work completed and part numbers used on each invoice. The original brake pad part number has been superseded twice by Subaru. If your brakes keep failing even on the new parts, then SoA will want to know about that. On the other hand, if your dealer keeps installing the original brake pad part number, or is installing them incorrectly, then SoA will want to know that as well. The TSB for the brakes, linked here, is very specific about the application of grease (where to apply it and where not to apply it). It's possible your dealer is not installing the brake pads correctly.
 

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Also, ask to have the rotors replaced, not just resurfaced.
This week my pads were replaced under warranty. I also see they resurfaced the rotors as part of the process. I think I will just monitor the rotors' wear. If they wear prematurely from what a full rotor would I will ask them then to replace it since it was their original diffective pad replacement that required the rotor to be resurfaced prematurely. I have a gold plus plan so I can leverage that as well if need be.
 

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packout, from the numbers on my work order, it seems they really took off a very minimal amount of material when they surfaces...like a few 'thou.
 

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My front brake pads made the same grinding noise. The dealer replaced the pads with REV C pads and replaced the rotors. They told me the rotors were too warped to safely resurface them. Fine by me! I also had an oil leak and the dealer replaced the oil pan gasket. I mention this because I then contacted SOA and told them I was concerned that my new and expensive (to me) car had these issues so early in the life of the car. SOA followed up by reviewing the dealer's records as it related to my Ascent. Then they did 3 things; they sent me a check for one month car payment ( $761 becuase I put nothing down and .9% factory financing for 48 months makes for a large payment). They also sent me a $250 certificate good at the service department for service or parts of my choice. Then a couple weeks after that, a Dyson vacuum cleaner showed up with a Thank You card inside from SOA for being so patient with them. All this is after they sent me a check for the battery I bought a few months after buying the car when on a road trip and had issues. I casually mentioned that during the emails and SOA sent me a separate check for the battery.
I cant say if this is standard practice, but I can say it's worth the time to contact SOA via email and be very polite when expressing concern about multiple issues with a new car. I want to add, this is my 5th Subaru and I'm sure they know this. When I contacted SOA when I was ready to buy the Ascent, they sent me a $750 certificate to apply towards my purchase. My dealer kicked in 2 full adult season ski passes at a resort they partner with as well. If I add up all these kick backs, they total over $3,000 so far. While I'm not looking forward to the next problem with my Ascent, I am pretty sure they'll continue to service my car to the fullest extent and try to keep me as a repeat customer.
 

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My front brake pads made the same grinding noise. The dealer replaced the pads with REV C pads and replaced the rotors. They told me the rotors were too warped to safely resurface them. Fine by me! I also had an oil leak and the dealer replaced the oil pan gasket. I mention this because I then contacted SOA and told them I was concerned that my new and expensive (to me) car had these issues so early in the life of the car. SOA followed up by reviewing the dealer's records as it related to my Ascent. Then they did 3 things; they sent me a check for one month car payment ( $761 becuase I put nothing down and .9% factory financing for 48 months makes for a large payment). They also sent me a $250 certificate good at the service department for service or parts of my choice. Then a couple weeks after that, a Dyson vacuum cleaner showed up with a Thank You card inside from SOA for being so patient with them. All this is after they sent me a check for the battery I bought a few months after buying the car when on a road trip and had issues. I casually mentioned that during the emails and SOA sent me a separate check for the battery.
I cant say if this is standard practice, but I can say it's worth the time to contact SOA via email and be very polite when expressing concern about multiple issues with a new car. I want to add, this is my 5th Subaru and I'm sure they know this. When I contacted SOA when I was ready to buy the Ascent, they sent me a $750 certificate to apply towards my purchase. My dealer kicked in 2 full adult season ski passes at a resort they partner with as well. If I add up all these kick backs, they total over $3,000 so far. While I'm not looking forward to the next problem with my Ascent, I am pretty sure they'll continue to service my car to the fullest extent and try to keep me as a repeat customer.
good on ya Subaru!
 

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my invoice provides no detail on this resurfacing of the rotors. Next time I am in the dealership I will have to ask for that documentation. I assume it exists.
I was actually surprised when I saw the specific measurements on that task.
 

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Can someone tell me what the part number is for the new model pads. I have had my 2019 in 4 times for this issue. Ready to bring it back it this week. The cut the first rotors at 7000 miles, replaced the rotors at 13000, cut them again at 17000, new pads at 19000. When I told the service rep during the last visit that I had heard there was a new part number for the pads he was unable to verify that and used the original part number for the replacement pads.
 

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Can someone tell me what the part number is for the new model pads. I have had my 2019 in 4 times for this issue. Ready to bring it back it this week. The cut the first rotors at 7000 miles, replaced the rotors at 13000, cut them again at 17000, new pads at 19000. When I told the service rep during the last visit that I had heard there was a new part number for the pads he was unable to verify that and used the original part number for the replacement pads.
26296XC00C PAD KIT F
FC: QAW10

description read --- replaced front brake pads with updated pads
 

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My 4-month-old 2019 Ascent was making grinding noises when descending down steep mountain roads. I assumed it was the brakes. When I took it in to the dealer they told me it was actually the transmission. Took them a month to get it replaced, because the transmissions were on backorder. It did solve the noise.
 

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I joined this forum specifically because of this problem. I've had the rotors replaced once and now they're acting up again, under 20K miles. I had a similar issue with a new Jeep Grand Cherokee almost 20 years ago. No matter how many times they replaced or resurfaced the rotors the problem persisted. So a question, is this just 2019 Ascents? Any 2021 issues yet? I keep getting trade in offers and might just swap it if the new ones don't have the issue. And my dealer did say there was a service bulletin issued for the problem. 18 complaints on NHTSA website btw.
 

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I joined this forum specifically because of this problem. I've had the rotors replaced once and now they're acting up again, under 20K miles. I had a similar issue with a new Jeep Grand Cherokee almost 20 years ago. No matter how many times they replaced or resurfaced the rotors the problem persisted. So a question, is this just 2019 Ascents? Any 2021 issues yet? I keep getting trade in offers and might just swap it if the new ones don't have the issue. And my dealer did say there was a service bulletin issued for the problem. 18 complaints on NHTSA website btw.
I don't know for sure, but I don't think there are any part number differences between the 2019 and the 2021 models (aside from the brake pad revision). Yes, there is a service bulletin on the brakes; has your dealer ever put the new pads on as part of the rotor resurfacing?

Additionally -- one option is replacing the brakes with aftermarket parts. You'd probably lose FAR less money than by trading for a 2021 model (if you're otherwise happy with your 2019). There are several choices for aftermarket rotors, and also a few choices now for aftermarket brake pads. I suspect selection will continue to grow as more customers demand parts coverage on these.
 

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I don't know for sure, but I don't think there are any part number differences between the 2019 and the 2021 models (aside from the brake pad revision). Yes, there is a service bulletin on the brakes; has your dealer ever put the new pads on as part of the rotor resurfacing?

Additionally -- one option is replacing the brakes with aftermarket parts. You'd probably lose FAR less money than by trading for a 2021 model (if you're otherwise happy with your 2019). There are several choices for aftermarket rotors, and also a few choices now for aftermarket brake pads. I suspect selection will continue to grow as more customers demand parts coverage on these.
Thanks for the reply. I had both pads and rotors completely replaced when the problem first came up. I don't think it's actually the parts that are failing, my guess is there is something either with how they're installed or with the ABS that is causing the issue to reoccur. In both instances it was a hard braking situation (although not out of the ordinary IMHO) that threw the rotors out of whack.
 

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I think some here have posited that the OEM rotors are particularly "soft" or otherwise prone to developing the thickness variation (TV) that commonly presents as pulsation, and diagnosed as a "warped" rotor. The rotor is usually not "warped" as in twisted or deformed like that, but rather brake pad material that is deposited onto the rotor surface. It's especially common after a hard stop when everything really heats up. Do you recall by chance if you used the Auto Vehicle Hold (AVH) feature after that hard stop? I'm wondering myself if the very firm pressured applied by the AVH system contributes to this. High heat plus high pressure from AVH with the pad and rotor stationary would basically press the material and rotor together in the worse possible way and could lead to the localized deposit of material.

But, again, I think others suppose it's the metallurgy of the factory rotors themselves (which would not resolve itself if the dealer keeps putting on more of the same). I suppose an aftermarket solution would prove or disprove that. Our 2020 Touring has fewer than 11k miles and we haven't had any brake pulsation so far. We also don't tow and our driving style is what you'd consider "typical" for suburban/rural driving (in other words, pretty easy on equipment). We've had intermittent brake squeal, for which their is a service bulletin, and our pads were replaced with the third version (part number ends with a 'C'). It seems Subaru has a fourth version of the pads out now (part number ends with a 'D'), but I'm not aware of updates to the brake rotor itself.
 

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I think some here have posited that the OEM rotors are particularly "soft" or otherwise prone to developing the thickness variation (TV) that commonly presents as pulsation, and diagnosed as a "warped" rotor. The rotor is usually not "warped" as in twisted or deformed like that, but rather brake pad material that is deposited onto the rotor surface. It's especially common after a hard stop when everything really heats up. Do you recall by chance if you used the Auto Vehicle Hold (AVH) feature after that hard stop? I'm wondering myself if the very firm pressured applied by the AVH system contributes to this. High heat plus high pressure from AVH with the pad and rotor stationary would basically press the material and rotor together in the worse possible way and could lead to the localized deposit of material.

But, again, I think others suppose it's the metallurgy of the factory rotors themselves (which would not resolve itself if the dealer keeps putting on more of the same). I suppose an aftermarket solution would prove or disprove that. Our 2020 Touring has fewer than 11k miles and we haven't had any brake pulsation so far. We also don't tow and our driving style is what you'd consider "typical" for suburban/rural driving (in other words, pretty easy on equipment). We've had intermittent brake squeal, for which their is a service bulletin, and our pads were replaced with the third version (part number ends with a 'C'). It seems Subaru has a fourth version of the pads out now (part number ends with a 'D'), but I'm not aware of updates to the brake rotor itself.
All very interesting. In my case no, the AVH wasn't used. I live in Chicago so everything is flat as can be. Both instances were exactly the same. Everything was fine then a light suddenly turned yellow and I had to hit the brakes hard to come to a stop...but not what I would classify as "emergency braking." As I hit the brakes you could feel everything shudder significantly and from then on they always pulse or have even a slight little "buckle" feel to them when braking. especially on harder braking. I haven't taken it back for this second time yet, have to find a time in the schedule that works.
 

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Pretty sure @hokiefyd meant ABS. ABS is constantly in use on the Ascent, and every Subie, for quite some time. The VDC system, for one, makes extensive use of it, as does Adaptive Cruise Control, the Symmetrical AWD system, regular braking and active torque vectoring on the front wheels.
 

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Pretty sure @hokiefyd meant ABS. ABS is constantly in use on the Ascent, and every Subie, for quite some time. The VDC system, for one, makes extensive use of it, as does Adaptive Cruise Control, the Symmetrical AWD system, regular braking and active torque vectoring on the front wheels.
No, I did mean AVH. ABS has been in common use on cars for several decades now, and I don't think there's a consistent pattern between ABS use and brake rotor TV. In most cases where users report pulsation after a hard stop (or a prolonged braking event, like riding the brakes down a hill), it wasn't actually an ABS-inducing event...just a braking event that generated a lot of heat in both the rotors and the pads.

And that's where I suspect AVH systems may contribute to this. I'm pretty sure the AVH system does not know if you're on an extreme downhill angle and need a LOT of brake to keep the car from moving forward or if you're on an uphill incline and barely need any brake at all. It's going to apply everything it has every time (when you engage it by pressing the brake pedal after you stop to hold the car). Yes, there are vehicle angle sensors on our car, but I'm not certain they inform the AVH system of the angle. If AVH is used after one of these hard braking events where a tremendous amount of heat was suddenly generated by the pads and rotors, and it basically clamps them together really firmly for a moderate period of time (like a long traffic light), I think it's reasonable to wonder if there's an increased tendency for pad material transfer (which is usually the cause of the rotor TV). In the "old school", it was recommended to not sit exactly stopped after a hard braking event -- you'd slowly let the car roll if possible to keep the rotors rotating under the pads so you didn't park the pads in one area of the rotor. AVH goes against that idea.

Again, I'm not saying AVH causes this. I'm saying the car industry has a much shorter track record with AVH and a much smaller body of knowledge to know if there are any unintended consequences and, given traditional theory behind what causes TV in brake rotors, there could be a correlation between AVH and a tendency for brake rotor pulsing complaints.
 
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