Subaru Ascent Forum banner
1 - 20 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Heated seats - I thought they are only on the Touring.
Ventilated seats - I believe the Touring has it. Does it really feel different having air? Or is it a different leather?
360 degree camera
Electric folding side mirrors
Hands-free power liftgate when you put your foot underneath
V6 engine - more power
Tighter steering - the electric steering feels numb
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
412 Posts
Heated seats - I thought they are only on the Touring.
Ventilated seats - I believe the Touring has it. Does it really feel different having air? Or is it a different leather?
360 degree camera
Electric folding side mirrors
Hands-free power liftgate when you put your foot underneath
V6 engine - more power
Tighter steering - the electric steering feels numb
Heated seats standard on anything more than Base Model
Vented - Only touring gets them - i believe its different than most ventilated seats
360 Camera - couldn't agree more. It would be nice
Folding Mirrors - YES PLEASE. 2020
V6/H6 - never going to happen.
Tighter steering - Meh. it's not a sports car.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
12,149 Posts
H6 is less powerful, less torque

V6 engine - more power
Subaru only makes "H"'s (horizontally opposed boxer motors). The H6 is less powerful than the Ascent's 2.4L DIT. As a matter of fact, the Ascent 2.4 H4 DIT and high torque CVT combo is as fast or faster than the thousand pound lighter Subaru Outback 3.6R and high torque CVT. And considering all the extra weight, it gets better gas mileage when you're not pushing it fast.

As a matter of fact, the FA24 2.4DIT in the Ascent is more powerful than a number of V6 options from other manufacturers.

3.6L H6:
• 256 horsepower
• 247 lb-ft torque

2.4L DI Turbo in the Ascent:
• 260 horsepower
• 277 lb-ft torque @ 2,000-4,800rpm

Subaru's 2.4L engine makes a peak torque of 277 lb-ft from 2,000 to 4,800 rpm. The 3.5L V6 in Toyota Highlander tops out at 263 lb-ft for torque. The 3.5l V6 in the Honda Pilot makes 262 lb-ft at 4,700 rpm. Ford Explorer's base 3.5L V6 makes 255 lb-ft of torque. Dodge Durango's 3.6L V6 makes 260 lb-ft of torque.



While you may not like the lack of a 6 cylinder, the numbers suggest this new engine is competitive and even superior in power numbers compared to most of the competition.

  • The 2.4L DIT engine's torque is 277 lb-ft from 2,000 to 4,800 rpm.
  • The 3.5L V6 in Toyota Highlander tops out at 263 lb-ft for torque.
  • The 3.5l V6 in the Honda Pilot makes 262 lb-ft at 4,700 rpm.
  • Ford Explorer's base 3.5L V6 makes 255 lb-ft of torque.
  • Ford EcoBoost 2.3L 4 cylinder makes 310 lb-ft of torque
  • Dodge Durango's 3.6L V6 makes 260 lb-ft of torque.


You'll soon see everyone heading the same direction, and Subaru's offering is pretty impressive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
H6 would be a nice option. While the numbers look great on paper for all these force induction 4s the unfortunately reality (especially in vehicles this size )are its working extremely hard to keep up with what 6 and 8 cylinders hardly break a sweat with. Short term will be fine but the real question is what kind of repairs or replacement are you gonna have to deal with when you start approaching triple digits or even sooner. I feel like auto makers like throwing big power numbers and higher MPG math on paper because it sells and not because its actually better. They just hope your out of warranty before it shits the bed
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,102 Posts
H6 would be a nice option. While the numbers look great on paper for all these force induction 4s the unfortunately reality (especially in vehicles this size )are its working extremely hard to keep up with what 6 and 8 cylinders hardly break a sweat with. Short term will be fine but the real question is what kind of repairs or replacement are you gonna have to deal with when you start approaching triple digits or even sooner. I feel like auto makers like throwing big power numbers and higher MPG math on paper because it sells and not because its actually better. They just hope your out of warranty before it shits the bed
I'd guess that manufacturers might prefer to keep churning out big NA motors, but like you said, the MPG looks good on paper for the small displacement turbos and they have to meet CAFE standards. At least these turbo motors put out some nice torque low in the rev range, which is pretty nice for typical driving.

I've always wondered if there was an H6 available in the Ascent if the front overhang would be even loooonger? It kind of looks like another row of cylinders could fit in the engine bay though. I haven't poked around the 3.6 Outback to see if that motor appears shoehorned in there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
313 Posts
... are its working extremely hard to keep up with what 6 and 8 cylinders hardly break a sweat with. ...
It is making similar power at the same or lower RPM so it can't be that. If it was just strapping a turbo on an engine that would be one thing, but this was designed for it.

So what does "extremely hard" and "breaking a sweat" refer to?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
12,149 Posts
Except it's literally already been tested against the H6 and it trounces it with ease. I am not exaggerating when I say it matches or beats the thousand pounds lighter H6 powered Outback.

It's the six that would struggle with the Ascent.

I want to find someone with one locally to race with a thousand pounds in it to compare, but I am very sure that the Ascent would smoke the H6 with the same weights.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,154 Posts
Except it's literally already been tested against the H6 and it trounces it with ease. I am not exaggerating when I say it matches or beats the thousand pounds lighter H6 powered Outback.

It's the six that would struggle with the Ascent.

I want to find someone with one locally to race with a thousand pounds in it to compare, but I am very sure that the Ascent would smoke the H6 with the same weights.
Of course, it is a turbo! The turbo is a great engine, but as has been mentioned previously, longevity will be the key. Will both engines be running smoothly/powerfully at 100,000 miles? You will be able to confirm that soon enough.:grin:

Have the two vehicles ever had a quarter mile drag race or a 0-60 mph race? That would be interesting - because high numbers don't always translate to a win in real life conditions.

The Ascent Touring is 7.3 seconds for 0-60
The Ascent Premium is 6.9 seconds for 0-60
The Outback Touring H6 is 6.9 - 7.1 seconds for 0-60. (Motor Trend)

Looks like a virtual tie.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
12,149 Posts
Except it's literally already been tested against the H6 and it trounces it with ease. I am not exaggerating when I say it matches or beats the thousand pounds lighter H6 powered Outback.

It's the six that would struggle with the Ascent.

I want to find someone with one locally to race with a thousand pounds in it to compare, but I am very sure that the Ascent would smoke the H6 with the same weights.
Of course, it is a turbo! The turbo is a great engine, but as has been mentioned previously, longevity will be the key. Will both engines be running smoothly/powerfully at 100,000 miles? You will be able to confirm that soon enough.
I was just on the beach with this woman and her Subie. Over 200k miles, still hitting the beach with her little turbo Subie.

Hoping Honeywell went forward on this one. We'll see. I'll let everyone know in a year and a half when I break 100,000. ?
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
764 Posts
There is definitely a lot of space under the hood...made me wonder if they were actually thinking 3.6 in the design.
That is just a natural benefit of the boxer engine. It naturally sits very low.

As far as I understand it Subaru contemplated a new 6 cylinder engine for the Tribeca when they were looking at a third generation vs discontinuing it (2012ish). That is when they decided to pursue turbo charged possibilities and finish out the 3.6R in the outback and legacy. Subaru historically has never been a brand that will take big risks. They take their time and do things right.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
213 Posts
Is it fair to compare a modern direct injection turbo engine against an 11 year old port injected NA engine? If Subaru had the funding, I suspect Subaru could make a new H6 that could match the FA24DIT.

I do find it interesting that Subaru is going forced induction, smaller motor on the large cars but doing bigger displacement on the medium sized cars. For example, the Levorg gets the FB16DIT engine. It puts out about 168hp and 184 lbs-ft. I was expecting FB16DIT to replace the FB25 engine in the Forester and the next Legacy/Outback. But Subaru put direct injection into the 2.5 liter engine and called it done! (I am not sure of the engine code for the new Forester, I assume it will be an FB engine and not an FA engine.) The new Forester's now makes 182 hp and 176 lbs-ft.

Getting back to the theme of this thread and the trim, does anyone else here miss the Vendor themed trims? I always like the LL-Bean Outbacks. Maybe Subaru should partner with Bass Pro Shop for an Ascent BPS Edition!

Silly Me ... Not Bass Pro Shop, but REI!
http://www.autonews.com/article/201...ad-trips-8217-reach-outdoorsy-shoppers-at-rei
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
412 Posts
Having vendor trims would be cool. I'd still like to see the full color gamut from other Subaru models. Who wouldn't want a WRC blue Ascent?!

Also they should do some more limited special editions like the Special Appearance package they did with the Outback. Also add some healthy carbon fiber in the trim!

Side note, do we know if the Ascent is running equal length headers or UEL for that signature rumble?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Compared to many other brands, who have gone to T4 engines lately, I hope that we can at least rely on the fact that Subaru has been making a version of this engine for a very long time. This is a better engine than the H6 in every way.

If you want a tried and true V6 in a boring mid-sized SUV, Toyota has a few million Highlanders waiting for a test drive.

I hope that longevity concerns can be assuaged by the fact that, like everything Subaru, it that is a derivative of a proven design (EA / EJ turbos). Most companies are trading out big engines for turbo 4 cylinders these days (Subaru, VW, and a few others have been doing this for years). I would much rather have a Subaru or a VW/Audi T4 than a honda Si with a relatively new engine design.

That being said, the turbo boxer in our new Ascent reminds me very little of the raw anger that our '05 WRX contained. It has been tuned to have minimal turbo lag and nice low RPM torque, which were things that 1st / 2nd gen US WRX driver would have raised **** about. That being said, our WRX **** the bed the day after we sold it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
932 Posts
A year ago I was all about the 3.6 engine in my next car, which I was hoping to be a 2019 Outback. But, once the Ascent dropped and I was able to test drive it, I didn't mind the turbo-4 at all.

Sure, it has direct injection which has (overall) an interesting track record, but the 3.6 has disadvantages too.

From what I've read on the forums, most of the people in mountainous areas prefer the turbo over NA anyway.

They did a great job in the design of this one. If I ended up getting another Outback anyway, I'd wait for the 2020 redesign just to have an option (hopefully) to get the 2.4T in it. That thing will haul since the Outback is that much lighter than the Ascent.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
932 Posts
Having vendor trims would be cool. I'd still like to see the full color gamut from other Subaru models. Who wouldn't want a WRC blue Ascent?!

Also they should do some more limited special editions like the Special Appearance package they did with the Outback. Also add some healthy carbon fiber in the trim!

Side note, do we know if the Ascent is running equal length headers or UEL for that signature rumble?
No, the Unequal Headers had to be removed because of the twin-scroll turbo. That's in everything except the EJ257 I believe, since the engine in the STI still has that Subie hummm...
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
12,149 Posts
Of Engines and Things

I'm not trying to be a downer, but from the copious amounts of research I've put into this, I wanted people to understand why asking for the H6 in the Ascent is a step backwards that won't happen.

Well, there's a whole lot of misconceptions about the available and desired engine options, as well as about the competition. I think one of Subaru's most difficult things is to portray what is in the Ascent in short form, yet also portray why they think it's best for what it is intended to do. I'm going to go into my standard ridiculously long form.

So, let's start with what we got - the FA24DIT.
We got an "all new" FA24DIT and new high torque CVT. But that's not really the full story. Our FA24 is based off the FA20 that's been successfully used for over half a decade. The direct injection method has been used on FA engines for over half a decade. The FA series is based on the FB series, which is a little older. The FA20F Direct Injection twin scroll turbo Subaru boxer engine was released in 2012.

So, we don't have anything groundbreakingly new. The FA24 has been revised with stronger internals, a little more space, different compression and some other tweaks for handling the higher torque and heavier loads (compared to the FA20), and Honeywell designed a "brand new" MGT-22 turbo for the Ascent. Honeywell. It's based off their tried and tested previous designs, just as the FA24 is based off the FA20 and FB series before it.

Short version is, we already have an idea of what to expect out of our FA24's, because DIT FA's have been out and about for years - over half a decade of active use.

Let's touch upon the 3.6L H6.
It will absolutely positively not, in its current form, be suited to moving the Ascent. The thing puts out less power and less torque and doesn't have as flat of a torque curve. And it gets faaaar worse. The thing gets the same gas mileage on a car a thousand pounds lighter than the Ascent. Think about that. Adding 150 pounds and a little more rolling resistance with bigger rims drops the Ascent a mile per gallon. So, stick the H6 in a car a thousand pounds heavier than the Outbacks it's designed for, and you're talking about dropping the gas mileage into oblivion. Don't believe me? Anyone who's got an Outback 3.6R, feel free to load an extra thousand pounds into it, plus yourself, and run through a couple tanks of gas.

Let's touch on what it takes to make the H6 engine perform well enough to move the Ascent.
  • Engine on/off at lights: that helps with gas mileage, but not enough.
    You still don't have enough power in the current H6.
  • Cylinder shut off: sure, this actually works with gas mileage - and manufacturers are now learning that it's at the cost of reliability.
    You still don't have enough power in the current H6.
  • Turbo: now you've got the power, but are still far away from the gas mileage requirements (eg: look at the Ford Ecoboost 3.5L TT in the Expedition: 17 mpg in the city and 24 mpg on the highway). This is the only way you get enough power (and then some) on the 3.6L H6 - other than designing a new and bigger non-turbo engine.

If you add one pound to the Ascent's GVWR, and a full frame, then, sure, market it as a light truck and make a powerful 6 with a turbo for it.

This isn't a light truck. Nor is that the market Subaru needed to go after. It would be another niche item, like the manual in the Outback. Fact is, that disappeared for more than fuel economy reasons. For instance, there were 881 manuals produced in a model year that had roughly 100,000 Outbacks and Legacies built. That's literally less than a percent.

So, making a brand new 6 cylinder that performs maybe as well as the new 2.4DIT for the 400 people who may want it would be a bad move, in my opinion. Regardless, it would be a big challenge to make something efficient that would move the Ascent at all. Look at what the competitor V6's do.

In Summary:
  • You may think you want it, but, no, you do NOT want the less powerful, peaky torque curve, less efficient 3.6L H6 in the Ascent. The Ascent would be staggeringly slower and much much less fuel efficient.

    FYI: the performance numbers I've been citing over the last couple months have not been Subaru's. They've been Motor Trend's.
    The Ascent matches the performance of the MUCH lighter H6 power Outback at the same gas mileage.
    .
  • The Ascent will absolutely not make mpg requirements for the class with a 6 cylinder, turbo or not, except perhaps with both engine shut-off and cylinder shut-off being used, which increase complexity, cost and problems.
    .
  • Other than luxury car manufacturers, very few, if any, cater to a market segment of less than a percent... and that's likely (like with the manual) how many people would want worse gas mileage with (a) far worse performance of the H6, or (b) an H6 turbo that's got even worse gas mileage but better performance. Not a good business move.

If Subaru makes a light truck one day, then things may be different.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
412 Posts
No, the Unequal Headers had to be removed because of the twin-scroll turbo. That's in everything except the EJ257 I believe, since the engine in the STI still has that Subie hummm...
Sad. Not that I'll be disconnecting the downpipe anytime soon :angel: :devil:
I was hoping to get a little growl but oh well! Maybe years down the road there will be an aftermarket option
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
304 Posts
Sad. Not that I'll be disconnecting the downpipe anytime soon :angel: :devil:
I was hoping to get a little growl but oh well! Maybe years down the road there will be an aftermarket option
UEL has proven to be detrimental anyway. Every STI I've owned has had a KillerB holy header (EL) on it with an EWG dumping to atmosphere. You want to hear an angry car? Let me tell you...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
412 Posts
UEL has proven to be detrimental anyway. Every STI I've owned has had a KillerB holy header (EL) on it with an EWG dumping to atmosphere. You want to hear an angry car? Let me tell you...
Found a video.


I trust your judgement
 
  • Like
Reactions: Orestes85
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top