[packout]

Also, the part describing the intention/purpose of airbags are to protect internal organs from rapid changes in velocity, not necessarily superficial injuries.

Rapid head movement involves brain movement inside the skull.

 

[Ruben Marin]

Rapid head movement involves brain movement inside the skull.

Last I checked there was no head worn g sensor option for the ascent. So engineers rely on testing and vehicle data sensors to calculate those delta forces, and enable airbags to work or not as in this case. Any accident where the occupants come away without life threatening injuries means the engineers did their jobs.

 

[packout]

Last I checked there was no head worn g sensor option for the ascent. So engineers rely on testing and vehicle data sensors to calculate those delta forces, and enable airbags to work or not as in this case. Any accident where the occupants come away without life threatening injuries means the engineers did their jobs.

I understand that the primary concern is to save the life. As technology has improved the number of lives saved in crashes has increased significantly, but injuries have as expected gone up (similar to the battlefield utilizing TCCC). The effort is continuing to reduce the number of the most severe injuries and moving towards less severe as a matter of priorities. Hence the development of Knee Bolster Airbags which do not save lives, but "has proven to reduce severe injuries to the lower extremities on impact with the dash board." I do not believe the engineers job is done simply because the life was saved.

As you can see below, angle collisions are almost double the head on collisions. This leads me to further inquire about reducing the injuries from this type of collision. Some of this engineering is done appropriately through a crumple zone in some combination with seat belt, air bags and of course software and the improved sensors themselves.

Type of Crash - Injury Facts

injuryfacts.nsc.org

 

[Ruben Marin]

I understand that the primary concern is to save the life. As technology has improved the number of lives saved in crashes has increased significantly, but injuries have as expected gone up (similar to the battlefield utilizing TCCC). The effort is continuing to reduce the number of the most severe injuries and moving towards less severe as a matter of priorities. Hence the development of Knee Bolster Airbags which do not save lives, but "has proven to reduce severe injuries to the lower extremities on impact with the dash board." I do not believe the engineers job is done simply because the life was saved.

As you can see below, angle collisions are almost double the head on collisions. This leads me to further inquire about reducing the injuries from this type of collision. Some of this engineering is done appropriately through a crumple zone in some combination with seat belt, air bags and of course software and the improved sensors themselves.
View attachment 13036

Type of Crash - Injury Facts

injuryfacts.nsc.org

What is considered angled? And at what angle? 5 degrees? 85 degrees?

I take it "angle" would probably be more consistent with the increased focus on offset frontal collisions, the most likely scenario for serious injury.

 

[packout]

What is considered angled? And at what angle? 5 degrees? 85 degrees?

I take it "angle" would probably be more consistent with the increased focus on offset frontal collisions, the most likely scenario for serious injury.

I would agree as compared to frontal or a full on t-bone collision (presumably between that 90 degrees offset with a triggered velocity threshold). In any case my concern is severe head movement in of itself as well as possible contact with the vehicle side.

 

[Ruben Marin]

I would agree as compared to frontal or a full on t-bone collision (presumably between that 90 degrees offset with a triggered velocity threshold). In any case my concern is severe head movement in of itself as well as possible contact with the vehicle side.

What constitutes severe? Given how little data we have here your posts seem more like an agenda than a fact finding mission.

 

[packout]

What constitutes severe? Given how little data we have here your posts seem more like an agenda than a fact finding mission.

for me, if it is life changing it is severe. No agenda, Nothing I do with this is putting money in my pocket. I am simply educating myself as to how it all works and what the thresholds are. I bought my Ascent in part for its safety and I would certainly like for my head to be protected as much as possible if someone hits me at an angle. I had thought the curtain airbag would do this. I had no idea that it might not deploy even if the forces threw my head sideways to hit the side of the vehicle. I am responding to that post to figure it all out. Engineers should continue to improve the saving of lives as they also reduce the risk of injuries (however you wish to classify them). I am not an engineer and the data I present is what is readily available on-line. It at least indicates that the angle impact is something to be paid attention to. It also supports what I had believed, that as deaths decreased, survivors injuries increased. therefore additional attention needs to be placed on those injuries. I suspect as the next generation eyesight is introduced, it will be associated with the controllers for the restraint and airbag systems. This I would hope will help dial in a more precise proactive response from the system.

 

[Ruben Marin]

for me, if it is life changing it is severe. No agenda, Nothing I do with this is putting money in my pocket. I am simply educating myself as to how it all works and what the thresholds are. I bought my Ascent in part for its safety and I would certainly like for my head to be protected as much as possible if someone hits me at an angle. I had thought the curtain airbag would do this. I had no idea that it might not deploy even if the forces threw my head sideways to hit the side of the vehicle. I am responding to that post to figure it all out. Engineers should continue to improve the saving of lives as they also reduce the risk of injuries (however you wish to classify them). I am not an engineer and the data I present is what is readily available on-line. It at least indicates that the angle impact is something to be paid attention to. It also supports what I had believed, that as deaths decreased, survivors injuries increased. therefore additional attention needs to be placed on those injuries. I suspect as the next generation eyesight is introduced, it will be associated with the controllers for the restraint and airbag systems. This I would hope will help dial in a more precise proactive response from the system.

At some point you have to realize machines can't account or predict for every human action. This is why we call them accidents.

The saying, "As soon as you make something fool-proof, along comes a better fool." Is really what rings true to me with safety technology

 

[packout]

At some point you have to realize machines can't account or predict for every human action. This is why we call them accidents.

The saying, "As soon as you make something fool-proof, along comes a better fool." Is really what rings true to me with safety technology

Your response has changed from engineers are doing all of what they need to do (save lives) to now machines are not going to be able to account for all variables to prevent lives lost or all injuries. the last post imputing my motivation, as if I had an agenda of some unknown variety. I disagree with the former and never stated otherwise for the latter. There is no fool proof. Engineers should continue to innovate the technology and improve its performance for improved outcomes. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

[Ruben Marin]

Your response has changed from engineers are doing all of what they need to do (save lives) to now machines are not going to be able to account for all variables to prevent lives lost or all injuries. the last post imputing my motivation, as if I had an agenda of some unknown variety. I disagree with the former and never stated otherwise for the latter. There is no fool proof. Engineers should continue to innovate the technology and improve its performance for improved outcomes. Nothing more and nothing less.

My response is not a singular thought process, engineers do what they can within the parameters they work with. In this case, the tone seemed to be, (without proof for either case) the airbag system malfunctioned by not deploying. My assumption was the system worked as designed by those who built and designed the vehicle.

 

[packout]

My response is not a singular thought process, engineers do what they can within the parameters they work with. In this case, the tone seemed to be, (without proof for either case) the airbag system malfunctioned by not deploying. My assumption was the system worked as designed by those who built and designed the vehicle.

I never stated it malfunctioned. That appears to have been your projection. I stated the lack of deployment needed to be looked into so that all concerned can improve the outcome. It could very well be that the airbags worked as designed but that the outcome was not desirable so they can then look at possibly adjusting some of the software or hardware. The two are not mutually exclusive. This is precisely why crash analysis exist.

 

[Ruben Marin]

I never stated it malfunctioned. That appears to have been your projection. I stated the lack of deployment needed to be looked into so that all concerned can improve the outcome. It could very well be that the airbags worked as designed but that the outcome was not desirable so they can then look at possibly adjusting some of the software or hardware. The two are not mutually exclusive. This is precisely why crash analysis exist.

Thou doth protest too much, lol.

 

[Luis Padilla]

Not to drag this out…but I’m curious to know if the OP can state if there’s any frame damage 🤔

 

[Born before the internet]

what year Ascent is this? did the crash initiate a call to the emergency call center? automatic notification either all ready exists or is about to be implemented in Subarus. I thought it already exists.
View attachment 13006
We hope to expand our AACN features even further. We have plans to improve the information precision of our AACN to push up lifesaving rates in accidents: for example, by reporting the number of passengers in the car, by linking with EyeSight to report on pedestrian involvement, or by using the Driver Monitoring System (DMS) to judge and report if the driver is acutely ill.

View attachment 13007

It’s a 2019 and no, the accident didn’t send out an emergency call. I know there is a button that you can press for emergency but she was dazed and didn’t think of it. We aren’t 100% sure that eyesight didn’t engage braking, my wife thinks she braked before the impact.

 

[Born before the internet]

Not to drag this out…but I’m curious to know if the OP can state if there’s any frame damage 🤔

I’m hoping to find out some info this week.

 

[Born before the internet]

I believe it requires a direct hit to the sensor, unless some other speed/GForce requirements also can trigger them independent of the impact sensor.

I’m hoping to find this out too. It was a pickup pulling a landscape trailer. He ran a red but said he thought it was yellow and you know what that means.. he probably stepped on it. It’s a county road 45mph speed limit.

 

[Born before the internet]

Not to drag this out…but I’m curious to know if the OP can state if there’s any frame damage 🤔

We are going to get it looked at by the shop it was towed to and asl by the subaru dealer.

 

[Born before the internet]

Understood. This is why I am trying to determine the details involved. A side airbag is supposed to deploy when less impact than a frontal crash is involved due to the smaller space between the occupant and the autobody. Designers also replaced the toxic material in the bags and changed the velocity of the deployment. I assume the curtain bags deploy down so the explosion should have less of an negative impact compared to the steering wheel deployment.

I’ll have pictures and more details tomorrow. EMS had to get her out of the passenger side because the pickup was stuck to the ascent and when the pulled it off they couldn’t open the door. IMO side airbag on driver seat side should have been deployed in such a violent impact.

 

[packout]

I’ll have pictures and more details tomorrow. EMS had to get her out of the passenger side because the pickup was stuck to the ascent and when the pulled it off they couldn’t open the door. IMO side airbag on driver seat side should have been deployed in such a violent impact.

this is in part why I was hopeful that Subaru & NHTSA would know about it so they can determine if the airbag operated (not deployed) as designed or not. They are the ones who have access to the technical data. We are in the position to encourage improvements if possible.

It must have been terrifying for her and then the rest of the family getting that call.

 

[Luis Padilla]

We are going to get it looked at by the shop it was towed to and asl by the subaru dealer.

So sorry your family had to go through such an ordeal,hopefully there’s no long term physical or mental drawbacks to deal with for the future.Best of luck with everything.