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These guys are bashing Subaru again, but the reason for the post is when they mention "you cannot latch the car seat in the second row and still get into the third row." Evidently, that is possible in a couple other SUV's. They start talking about the Ascent at 10:26.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHT9TJ7CUKQ
You can get to the third row if you have the captain’s chairs.
 
There's no official 3rd row testing yet for the 3 row SUVs/CUVs. As we've seen from the massive list I compiled (link), some 7/8 seaters barely manage front row passenger safety (or don't at all), so, in general, I'd never trust another brand for third row safety when there's no requirements in force yet.

Subaru is the only ones I know that have rigorously tested for third row safety and expect to *already* meet the testing requirements when it comes out.

Regardless, as much as (and though) I trust them, kids under three are obviously a lot more fragile, and having that added buffer zone comes in handy in the event of an accident.

So, just as I wouldn't put a kid under 3 in the front row, I wouldn't put them in the 3rd row either, even in a Subaru.
Has Subaru published anything regarding their testing for third row and rear end crash testing?
 
No data public, just trust because they haven't let me down yet.

There's no official 3rd row testing yet for the 3 row SUVs/CUVs. As we've seen from the massive list I compiled (link), some 7/8 seaters barely manage front row passenger safety (or don't at all), so, in general, I'd never trust another brand for third row safety when there's no requirements in force yet.

Subaru is the only ones I know that have rigorously tested for third row safety and expect to *already* meet the testing requirements when it comes out.

Regardless, as much as (and though) I trust them, kids under three are obviously a lot more fragile, and having that added buffer zone comes in handy in the event of an accident.

So, just as I wouldn't put a kid under 3 in the front row, I wouldn't put them in the 3rd row either, even in a Subaru.

Has Subaru published anything regarding their testing for third row and rear end crash testing?
Just their statements or comments that they've designed it to exceed the upcoming crash tests an entire generation before it's required.

As I've said in other threads, it's up to each individual to decide whether to trust them or not. I trust them to have lived up to that promise.

The reason is simple. Back in February and March, I was telling everyone that the Ascent would beat the competition for crash safety, based partially on their statements, and in big part on me researching the new Subaru Global Platform - I had no special access to their crash data - just their word on what the results were showing.

So, then IIHS finally got around to testing the Ascent. I checked, and it beat all the competitors in its class. So, I expanded my comparison to 7/8 seat SUV that were outside of its class and 2-3 times the price. The Ascent still won. I then added in 7/8 seat minivans. The Ascent still won.


So, *I* trust their statement on the matter. They proved my predictions correct once. I expect the same. But that does NOT mean that you or anyone else, especially people considering putting something so precious as a child in the third row, should do the same and trust them based on their promise.

Regardless, if there's a company I'd choose to trust on such a promise, it would be them over all others.

Also, though I've held this position for months, I will admit that after this incident, I am probably a little more biased towards trusting them at their word:
 
From the Sorento video...

That's quite an interesting take, that there's a sub-category to the 3-row mid-size CUVs. What's more interesting is that the Ascent is in between the two sub-categories because of the accessibility (a limitation) to the 3-row (w/ car seats).

It's quite interesting assessment but it's something I'll have to ponder about to agree with his evaluation.
 
From the Sorento video...

That's quite an interesting take, that there's a sub-category to the 3-row mid-size CUVs. What's more interesting is that the Ascent is in between the two sub-categories because of the accessibility (a limitation) to the 3-row (w/ car seats).

It's quite interesting assessment but it's something I'll have to ponder about to agree with his evaluation.
I enjoy watching Alex on Autos on YouTube, but that whole part of him talking about the sub-categories did seem questionable. It's too bad that these reviewers' comments can't be edited like in actual printed media. I think Alex would have edited what he said.
 
From the Sorento video...

That's quite an interesting take, that there's a sub-category to the 3-row mid-size CUVs. What's more interesting is that the Ascent is in between the two sub-categories because of the accessibility (a limitation) to the 3-row (w/ car seats).

It's quite interesting assessment but it's something I'll have to ponder about to agree with his evaluation.

There's something to that theory. In my opinion there's 2 sub-categories of 3-row vehicles: The ones where the 3rd row can be permanently used (folded only from time to time to load oversized items) and the ones where it can only be used from time to time (folded all the time, and only up when more seats are needed). I found many 3-row vehicles that have so little space behind the 3rd row that any trip to the grocery store would require me to fold the 3rd row, so what's the point? I can only carry people in the 3rd row if there's no grocery bags, baby changing bag, no folded stroller, etc. which would be almost 100% of the time with infants and toddlers in the family. That makes a significant difference to justify a sub-category for me.


Regarding the limited accessibility of the 3rd row with car seats:
Not true if you have captain chairs. It's not as easy as in the Traverse or Atlas I tried, but still doable in the Ascent.


Also, the claim of other vehicles that you can recline the seat with a chair is not quite realistic. This is the Atlas, probably the best 3rd row access system out there:



Yet the demonstration uses a forward facing seat that's quite slim, it's a seat that most parents wouldn't buy. A Rear facing seat would hit the front row and not slide at all. Also, a convertible like the one my kid has (which goes from rear facing to front-facing and can be reclined) is egg-shaped and won't take that little space, it also has side protections for the head that will hit the front row as soon as you press the button. My other child seat is a front facing Recaro and is much bigger than the one in the picture, the top of the seat is a couple of inches below the roof of the Ascent. As a conclusion: to use that system I would have to buy a child seat that's a lot less safe and comfortable than the ones I have (and I consider myself an average parent, also don't forget that kid comfort = parent sanity, getting a comfortable child seat is the only way to get a quiet ride). I'd rather slide myself in front of the seats and go in between the captain chairs than use different child seats.


As far as positions: any infant that's in a rear facing seat is young enough that it needs to be monitored by an adult all the time. I found behind the passenger seat is the best location for a mom driving alone (with mirrors to see the child's face). No human being can reach behind the driver seat, and if it's rear facing, the center location is also uncomfortable, even though it's closer. A rear-facing infant should not be on the 3rd row unless there's an adult next to him because it can choke, suffocate with a blanket, etc. For forward facing the center location is best in the 2nd row.
For 2 kids, I alternate between both kids on the second row, and the older in the 3rd row, but one behind the other so they can't see each other (less fighting this way).
 
I enjoy watching Alex on Autos on YouTube, but that whole part of him talking about the sub-categories did seem questionable. It's too bad that these reviewers' comments can't be edited like in actual printed media. I think Alex would have edited what he said.
I don't think it needs to be edited, it's fine; he's entitled to his opinions. However, it would be helpful if they articulate a bit -just a little bit- to prove their hypothesis.

It's the first time I've seen their video and the number of stars (group of men) reviewing the car has a "zing" to it - something I can't quite characterize at the moment - but it's cool.
 
Their point is that you cannot move the second row seat forward far enough, with the car seat attached, to get into the third row. I am not surprised. Most adults cannot even get into the third row without significant contortions.
My point having a 2nd row bench 3rd row similar sized truck is that you put the single kid left side or center on the 60% you have 40% flip down/forward rear access been doing that for years. Though my 93 Land Cruiser was more like 50/50 that wasn’t possible to do two kids 2nd row and have flip down access to the very very cramped 3rd row. My Sequoia easily does two kids on the 60% with 40% flip down 3rd row access have done it many times.
 
To make it effective, let's trigger some of your thoughts thru the following scenario and question (assuming kids under 3yrs old):

-when the first child arrived, we tend to put them in the middle-seat of the 2nd row of these mid-size or compact CUV/SUV. When the second kid comes out, we have to place them by the windows (or at least one of them), assuming that this configuration is less safe. Why is the first kid more important, in terms of safety, than the second kid?

I like your line of thinking, here are a few of my thoughts too on infant safety:


The best crash safety device is the driver: DO NOT CRASH! If the driver is alone with a child, the child should go in the passenger side, 2nd row. It allows the parent/driver to reach the child by extending the right arm while still looking at the road. In the center or behind the driver this is not possible.
Besides crashes, infants can choke with toys or blankets, or throw up for no reason so the parent needs to be able to see and reach the kid quickly from the driver's position and still keep control of the vehicle. Putting in the center so it's safer during a crash won't make the kid safer when it gets tangled with blanket and can't breathe, and the driver can't reach the kid until after stopping the car. This is more likely to happen than a crash.

As you properly pointed out: child safety is not only about crashes.



Going with 2 kids:
I tried different configurations based on the age:
a) Rear-facing baby and one forward facing toddler: The rear facing baby goes in the passenger side, 2nd row with proper mirrors so driver can see the baby's face. The other kid goes to the 3rd row, so when a second adult is riding in the car, it rides in the back next to the baby (or 3rd row if using captain chairs, it can still see the baby's face and play with both kids) so the driver can drive without distractions.
b) Both forward-facing toddlers: First configuration I tried was obviously same as case a) (less effort in not moving the seats around), but now there's no need for an adult to ride the 2nd or 3rd row anymore. I also tried both kids in the 2nd row. This is safer in terms of a crash I guess, but kids tend to fight more side-by-side and the driver ends up turning too much attention to the fight and less to the road. Finally, I sent both to the 3rd row as well. They liked it as "something new" but not only it didn't improve safety, it makes it impossible for an adult to reach the kids quickly if there's an issue.


A year ago, I tried a booster with my oldest one. There was one situation where the seatbelt lock mechanism malfunctioned (not in the Subaru, previous vehicle), and the kid was getting squeezed by the seatbelt, the seatbelt had locked (as if something had pulled it really quick, but that didn't happen) and couldn't be pulled out, normally you let it go back a little bit and it releases. For some reason it got stuck and would still be locked, getting tighter and tighter when you let it go back. The kid wasn't strong enough to release the seatbelt yet. I had to go back and release it myself, with the kid freaking out as the seatbelt pressed the chest. Suffice to say, went back to using a child seat for a while longer. That seatbelt only unlocked after I rolled it back completely, and worked normally after that. It malfunctioned one more time, this time without a kid but it got stuck on the seat while folding the 3rd row, going around the back of the seat. It locked when unfolding the seat, and it got to a position where I couldn't move the seat anymore or get the belt from around the seat. I had to force the seatbelt over the corner of the seat after a lot of work (pure brute force), I was getting ready to cut the belt. Once it rolled back completely it unlocked and never failed again.
So yeah, we buckle up our kids so much to protect them in case of a crash, but nothing protected mine from a malfunctioning "safety" device like that belt, and don't even get me started on the Takata issues.
 
I had two goals when I first responded:

1. To point out the way we make decision - or lack of, and I don't mean it a finger-wagging way; there's something going on, like wrong, in our society that forces us to lose our critical thinking skills. Critical thinking is the ability to make decisions based on multi-variable (or multi-dimensional, multivariate) criteria when it's warranted. I see this problem around me, people my age and a large group of teens I've interfaced weekly in the last decade+; and
2. To actually recommend infant seat to be behind the driver w/ a mirror, for easy access when loading and unloading of kid. I'm a CHL holder and I think it's beneficial from a tactical POV because my approach would minimize the exposure to attacks during loading and unloading.

Again, there's not a one-rule fits all, but as long you're responsible for your own decision, that's all it matters.
 
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