2 infant car seats rear facing in 3rd row?
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If you look at the illustration at the bottom of page 79 in the owners manual, it shows 2 child seat anchor bars. These are on the driver's side. So it looks like you can only put 1 child seat in the 3rd row. There are 3 top tether points on the back of the 3rd row, which seems inconsistent.
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You can install a car seat (even rear facing) without using the latch system. It's just not as good
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The latch is easier, but there’s nothing wrong with using a seatbelt to install the seat (other than the fact that it’s more difficult to install). In fact, the seatbelt can hold more weight.
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Yes, this ^^
As long as there is a seatbelt present, you can technically install a car seat (front or rearward facing). Also in theory, I believe the seatbelt is indeed able to tolerate and restrain more weight.
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What I'm about to say is likely a side-bar conversation, but it's relevant to the overall car safety for both driver and passenger:
There's a systemic flaw in the word "safety" when it comes to infant or toddler. From what I experience from my own children and observations of others (online and offline), the mother or father roll-up everything they know about the protection of the kid, while forgetting other variables, and called it safe. The safety of the children should not be prioritized @ 100% over the driver or other passenger. This univariate analysis is obviously not the most effective method for critical thinking.
There should be a long-format conversation about the "other variables" to understand what I'm gonna conclude: I suggest, in most cases, not to place your NB, infant, or toddler (0-3yrs of age) in the middle-seat of the 2nd row or at all in 3rd row.
There's a systemic flaw in the word "safety" when it comes to infant or toddler. From what I experience from my own children and observations of others (online and offline), the mother or father roll-up everything they know about the protection of the kid, while forgetting other variables, and called it safe. The safety of the children should not be prioritized @ 100% over the driver or other passenger. This univariate analysis is obviously not the most effective method for critical thinking.
There should be a long-format conversation about the "other variables" to understand what I'm gonna conclude: I suggest, in most cases, not to place your NB, infant, or toddler (0-3yrs of age) in the middle-seat of the 2nd row or at all in 3rd row.
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Can I ask why? This defeats the purposes of 3rd row SUV's for families of kids under 3 years of age, which is one of the target areas that Subaru is trying to reach with the Ascent.
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I'm not suggesting it to be absolute, but in most cases. If any proposed seating configuration makes the parents feeling safe, then they should trust themselves. However, I'm not here to debate about how people feel because the information that they received, likely from Google, are result of a univariate analysis.
To square-out the numbers/ages, it's unlikely that you have a family w/ three kids under 3yrs old. Therefore, the 3rd row serves its purpose well for vast majority of the families, if not all in our country.
The objective should be about risk tolerance; how one tolerate the risk of being injured while the car is in motion and not in motion. The risk tolerance should always be consistent, and to unpack or reach the said objective, I think it will be a long conversation. To make it effective, let's trigger some of your thoughts thru the following scenario and question (assuming kids under 3yrs old):
-when the first child arrived, we tend to put them in the middle-seat of the 2nd row of these mid-size or compact CUV/SUV. When the second kid comes out, we have to place them by the windows (or at least one of them), assuming that this configuration is less safe. Why is the first kid more important, in terms of safety, than the second kid?
To square-out the numbers/ages, it's unlikely that you have a family w/ three kids under 3yrs old. Therefore, the 3rd row serves its purpose well for vast majority of the families, if not all in our country.
The objective should be about risk tolerance; how one tolerate the risk of being injured while the car is in motion and not in motion. The risk tolerance should always be consistent, and to unpack or reach the said objective, I think it will be a long conversation. To make it effective, let's trigger some of your thoughts thru the following scenario and question (assuming kids under 3yrs old):
-when the first child arrived, we tend to put them in the middle-seat of the 2nd row of these mid-size or compact CUV/SUV. When the second kid comes out, we have to place them by the windows (or at least one of them), assuming that this configuration is less safe. Why is the first kid more important, in terms of safety, than the second kid?
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I'd pick the middle row... most buffering...
Subaru is the only ones I know that have rigorously tested for third row safety and expect to *already* meet the testing requirements when it comes out.
Regardless, as much as (and though) I trust them, kids under three are obviously a lot more fragile, and having that added buffer zone comes in handy in the event of an accident.
So, just as I wouldn't put a kid under 3 in the front row, I wouldn't put them in the 3rd row either, even in a Subaru.
There's no official 3rd row testing yet for the 3 row SUVs/CUVs. As we've seen from the massive list I compiled (link), some 7/8 seaters barely manage front row passenger safety (or don't at all), so, in general, I'd never trust another brand for third row safety when there's no requirements in force yet.
Subaru is the only ones I know that have rigorously tested for third row safety and expect to *already* meet the testing requirements when it comes out.
Regardless, as much as (and though) I trust them, kids under three are obviously a lot more fragile, and having that added buffer zone comes in handy in the event of an accident.
So, just as I wouldn't put a kid under 3 in the front row, I wouldn't put them in the 3rd row either, even in a Subaru.
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Not mentioned in this thread is parent awareness of a infants status the 2nd row increases the chances of catching a problem. I “being dad” was / is the primary kid hauler daycare, school, sports etc. Even with my 6 yr old I prefer him 2nd row.
Add the distracted parents and toddlers left in car incidents 3rd row for kids who can’t get out of seats and the car on their own is just not a good idea.
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According to a study in Pediatrics, children in the center rear seat have an injury risk 43% less than children seated in the rear outboard positions. The center seat is probably the safest place for your child when in a crash.
There isn’t enough data that I could find on the safety of the third row, and car manufacturers don’t have to submit to rear end crash tests (yet). However, Subaru has done their own rear-end crash tests and they claim it performs well (see video below, starting at 5:08). On some smaller SUVs the third row is practically touching the rear glass, so I’m glad the Subaru claims that they have done their homework with third-row safety.
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Both kids are equally important, but one is more fragile
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I think in the given hypothetical scenario, the risk tolerance is consistent as best as it can be given the two different scenarios. When there's one kid, put him in the 2nd row center. When there are two kids to consider, do what's best and put them in the 2nd row outboard seats.
"Why is the first kid more important, in terms of safety, than the second kid?" It's been more than 20 years since I took philosophy 101, but this seems like it might fall under one of the logical fallacies.
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Yup -agreed!!! This guy understand the "other variables" to the overall safety, while others else roll-up all reasons and logic into the protection of the kid(s) - I think I stated this very clearly in earlier post. The action of the parents, while the car is in motion or not, is dependent to the outcome of the overall safety. Again, you should do everything to protect your kids as you believe, and I'm not debating about that - you don't need my permission to do as you pleased. In my line of business, conducting feasibility studies (and a fly-by-night statistician) and witnessed the various project outcomes have allowed me to realized that we live in a multivariate and interdependent conditions (i.e. a complex world), but for whatever reason we tend to conduct many of our personal business in a univariate ways - a very systemic issue.
I believe Subiesailor is a good representative of a set population, a parent w/ flaws like myself. The most balanced way to ensure the overall safety is to shift the focus from protecting the child to improve the accessibility for the parents - this is my main point for everyone to think about. That means, children under three should be by the windows, not in the middle-seat of 2nd row or at all in 3rd row.
I know I'm not explaining at a greater depth, simply because "other variables" deserves its own thread, but let me leave y'all another scenario and question:
If the Subaru Ascent dramatically improves the safety beyond the current testing (IIHS testings already shows excellent results) and car seats you buy are leap years in safety technology, would you still need to put your kids in the middle of the 2nd row seat?
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For us, when #1 came, I put the car seat in the middle of the rear seat of our sedans. As others mentioned, my rationale was that this location provided the maximum safety in terms of crumple zone spacing. Plus one of us could still sit next to the seat and keep an eye on the baby to make sure everything was going alright.
Also as others have noted, my personal preference would be NOT to put an infant car seat in the third row *if possible*, but of course you have to take the unique individual seating needs of the family in question into account. If you look at the IIHS crash videos, the Ascent seems to do remarkably well during the side impact tests, so I don’t think it’s the end of the world if that’s what needs to be done.
Once #2 came, we moved #1 over to the passenger side of the rear seat and placed the new infant car seat in the middle. This still allowed one of us to sit next to the infant seat to monitor the youngling. And that worked just fine.. until #2 got big enough to reach over and start grabbing #1’s toys. Then we shifted #1 over to behind the driver’s seat and left a gap in between the two...for sanity’s sake ?
Also as others have noted, my personal preference would be NOT to put an infant car seat in the third row *if possible*, but of course you have to take the unique individual seating needs of the family in question into account. If you look at the IIHS crash videos, the Ascent seems to do remarkably well during the side impact tests, so I don’t think it’s the end of the world if that’s what needs to be done.
Once #2 came, we moved #1 over to the passenger side of the rear seat and placed the new infant car seat in the middle. This still allowed one of us to sit next to the infant seat to monitor the youngling. And that worked just fine.. until #2 got big enough to reach over and start grabbing #1’s toys. Then we shifted #1 over to behind the driver’s seat and left a gap in between the two...for sanity’s sake ?
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I did the same thing. Only time eldest was 3rd row was when we were hauling 4+.
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Oh I see, by “other variables” you mean anything but getting into a crash. I would think that’s highly dependent on each parent’s individual situation.
For me, if I had only one infant, putting them directly behind the driver’s seat (2nd row window) would be the last 2nd row seat I’d choose, because that’s the hardest for me to see and reach—and the aforementioned safety benefits of the center seat. But again that choice may be different for others, particularly if they have other kids or elderly that they’re trying to transport.
Data can tell us a lot about the safety of the different seat locations, and facts can tell us the seatbelt is a good alternative to using latch on a car seat, but it can’t tell us about our unique situations, like how much of a fit Great Aunt Joan is going to throw when you tell her she has to sit in the third row with bad knees.
These guys are bashing Subaru again, but the reason for the post is when they mention "you cannot latch the car seat in the second row and still get into the third row." Evidently, that is possible in a couple other SUV's. They start talking about the Ascent at 10:26.
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