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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, as you all know from the Montauk Point pics, I did some towing again. This time, I decided to stop and do a 0-60 test. It wasn't a rolling start, or "one foot". The Torque app starts timing at 0mph and stops at 60mph.

We had two adults and hundreds of pounds of gear in the Ascent, 3/4 tank of gas, and a fully loaded 2011 Heartland Edge M18 (GVWR: 4,395 pounds), including with full water and waste tanks we didn't bother to empty.

A not too shabby 15.968 seconds. I am quite happy with that. My 1988 Hyundai Excel GLS was rated two seconds faster empty (heh, with a tailwind and going downhill maybe). The Ascent towing beats the empty Hyundai in 0-100kph, lol!!! ??

So, I'm quite happy.


#Subaru #SubaruofAmerica #SubaruAmbassador #SubaruAmbassadorRobert #SubieLove #SubaruAscent #AscentAdventure
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
LMAO, yeah. ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I am so impressed with this beast!!! ❤
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Curious... throttle wise... were you simply 100% and letting it govern/red-line itself?
Yep, exactly what I did. Floored it and let off the pedal when the run completed in torque.
I thought about manual shifting within the torque band, but most people probably won't do that.

I may try again and do that. I suspect I can get a couple more seconds.
 

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I've had to merge onto the highway towing my Mustang and yes it's great when you need it to get up and go even while towing. It moves!
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Probably knock 1-2 seconds off if they took off the fake shifts
That’s about my guess. Maybe a little more. I think that if I shifted in the torque range, I could manage 1-2 seconds. I think with the shifting removed and the computer managing keeping a combination of the best rpm for the load while being in the torque band, that I might swing another 1-2 seconds on top of that.

At best, I think low 12s to low 13s.
 

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Yup I saw the advantages when I had my IS-F that shifts in 0.1 sec. When I was having “spirited drives” with friends with cars having similar hp and tq, we would be neck and neck they would lose half a car length or more when shifting.

Its almost like having a sprinter jump 2x in a 100M dash ?

I need to research our CVT on how it actually does a fake shift. Does it work like a manual clutch? Can’t imagine engaging and disengagement of power/load to have less wear than a continuous connection. (Highway vs city driving on a manual)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I need to research our CVT on how it actually does a fake shift. Does it work like a manual clutch? Can’t imagine engaging and disengagement of power/load to have less wear than a continuous connection. (Highway vs city driving on a manual)
Don't worry, I know all of that. There's no clutches in the power ratio section of the CVT. It's an always-connected direct connection right up until the AWD clutches (which are a big multi-plate, computer controlled assembly that allows shifting 100% power front or rear).

This is a simulation of a TR690 in action (starts about 10s mark or so)

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This is a TR580, which you will note has smaller gears, smaller chain, smaller pulleys, etc.


Ours is the high torque TR690. The TR580 is for other applications such as the naturally aspirated 2.5L in the Outback, Legacy, etc.

So, to change "gears", our CVT changes pulley ratios to correspond with our faux gears (a Forester XT or WRX has different ratios programmed). It just "jumps" the chain up or down. This is also why it may feel "slippy" when skipping faux gears - because it's actually simply a matter of the pulleys pumping up/down so the chain moves up or down the cones for an extended distance.

Now, add our slight turbo lag, and the engine speed having to catch up with the increased RPM needs (say, for instance, when you floor it), and it seems there's a load drop.

But, the way you can best feel the CVT smoothly change "gear" ratios is to set ACC to a high speed (one that matches the speed limit, of course), and stopping the car. Then, hit the "resume" button for ACC, and watch it smoothly change ratios. The RPMs will stick in the torque range as well.

It's utterly amazingly beautiful what the TR690 can do when not operating in "appease the reviewers who don't like the rubber-band effect that they ironically like in electric cars, and demanded faux shifting".

Talk to someone with a 2010-2011 Outback with the CVT (any engine). It's a TR690 without faux shifting. Better yet, drive one if you can. One day, I hope we can disable the faux shifting.

Forward Ratio is between 3.227 — 0.467
Reverse Ratio is Fixed 3.136

Variable 8 speed faux gear ratios are:
  1. 3.227
  2. 2.100
  3. 1.535
  4. 1.191
  5. 0.933
  6. 0.749
  7. 0.602
  8. 0.467
 

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But, the way you can best feel the CVT smoothly change "gear" ratios is to set ACC to a high speed (one that matches the speed limit, of course), and stopping the car. Then, hit the "resume" button for ACC, and watch it smoothly change ratios. The RPMs will stick in the torque range as well.

It's utterly amazingly beautiful what the TR690 can do when not operating in "appease the reviewers who don't like the rubber-band effect that they ironically like in electric cars, and demanded faux shifting".
I'll have to try the ACC trick. I know when I get the throttle at just the right amount it'll accelerate smoothly without getting into "faux shift range".

That's the beautiful thing about our Tesla Model 3. We have the "slowest" model, the SR (Standard Range). Full throttle application gives a VERY quick 0-60 of 5.3 seconds, with electric torque pushing you back into the seat. But the amazingly nice thing is that it is totally smooth. No jerking because it doesn't shift at all. A Model 3 Performance is on my list. I can't imagine the same feeling, but at 3.3 secs!

If they offered a dealer option to get the ECU flashed to remove the faux shifting and even if it cost $500, I'd be first in line!

It's even more important when towing as it wouldn't rock the trailer so much when trying to merge on the freeway. The speed limit is 65mph, which means Phoenix drivers are going 80mph.
 

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I appreciate and value your test. I just bought an Airstream 22' single axle "Caravel" mt 4000 / max 5000 lbs hitch 525 lbs (yes I know and can adjust for this) and will take delivery early next year. My 2020 Ascent delivered with all options in Ontario Canada identical to your "Touring" (except does not monitor tire pressure as not required in Canada) US version but this model named "Premier" here in Canada.

Am following your posts specially those discussing adapting hitch with sway and load distribution devices. I am experienced RV'er having owned many heavy trailers but this is my first single axle and first tow with my new Ascent. I am finding and reading all forum comments respecting towing.

Thank you for sharing. I am paying attention to your growing knowledge!!
 

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I appreciate and value your test. I just bought an Airstream 22' single axle "Caravel" mt 4000 / max 5000 lbs hitch 525 lbs (yes I know and can adjust for this) and will take delivery early next year.
would love to hear about your towing experience with the Caravel. I looked at AS, but opted for the lighter, less expensive nüCamp for now, but still dreaming! :)
 

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Hi friends and thanks for asking. Today is February 16th and we are excited as our new Airstream 22' Caravel will be built from an assortment of hand built aluminum pieces and parts on Tuesday of this coming week at the brand new Airstream factory in Jackson Center Ohio. The VIN# was issued to our dealer "CANAM RV of London Ontario" and then on to us, more than 2 months ago. It's winter here in SW Ontario and we are anxious for spring and our travel plans that will follow starting in late April. We expect delivery factory to CANAM will happen sometime just before the end of this month.

This Airstream will be our fourth Airstream buy over the past decade or so. We first began trailering some years ago with a 21 footer, later a 28 and then a 30' which we towed (at several different times) all the way to from home to St. John's Newfoundland and as far as Dawson City Yukon and back. We powered these trailers with a gas engine GMC pickup and never had a single mechanical issue with either trailer or truck.

Prior to our move to Airstream, we enjoyed 3 different 36' 5th wheel trailers which we towed over some 20 years with 5 different diesel dually pickups. Many years we pulled to just south of Cancun on the Caribbean coast where we spent winters sunning with many other RVers from both the USA and Canada.

I am a retired police officer. During my 30 years of service, I investigated more than one RV upset. Vehicle instability and in at least one case an overload, were primary causative factors. Sadly, many first time RV owners leave their dealers sales lot full of excitement, with little if any user explanation and sometimes little knowledge of how to hitch up and drive for stability and safety.

Towing a 4000+ lb trailer with my new (now 5000 kms, 3000 miles) Ascent (4860 lbs full fuel, 1 passenger) will be a new experience for me. I have come to both respect and appreciate this 2020 Ascent which has in my opinion based on my life experience, more than ample power and capability to pull our AS. To be sure it's connected in a professional manner to my Ascent, www.cananamrv.ca will do the hitch design and electrical/brake install and driver training for me and my copilot. This RV firm and it's installation specialists are known all over Canada and much of the USA as the "place to get safely hitched". You will not have to look far to discover their stellar reputation!

Yes, we are excited. As new Subaru Ascent owners still learning to appreciate this cars features, towing with this car will be a new experience.

We expect to have more to share with you and others as time passes.
 

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will do the hitch design
You are aware, I hope, that you cannot use a WDH on the Ascent. See the sticky at the top of the Towing section. ;) The OEM factory hitch setup includes the wiring so all you need to do is plug in your brake controller unless you're getting one of the fancy two piece units.

I bet that will be a great trailer...Airstreams are special!
 
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Hi friends and thanks for asking. Today is February 16th and we are excited as our new Airstream 22' Caravel will be built from an assortment of hand built aluminum pieces and parts on Tuesday of this coming week at the brand new Airstream factory in Jackson Center Ohio. The VIN# was issued to our dealer "CANAM RV of London Ontario" and then on to us, more than 2 months ago. It's winter here in SW Ontario and we are anxious for spring and our travel plans that will follow starting in late April. We expect delivery factory to CANAM will happen sometime just before the end of this month.
After going to a couple of RVs shows, this winter, I think the Caravel has best layout and interior in the class. Congrats.
 

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Congratulations on your new trailer! The Airstream 22' Caravel is one of the best such trailers available in terms of quality and layout. You have impeccable taste and Airstream trailers are second to none.

You may receive some opinions here that the 22' Caravel may be too heavy to tow with an Ascent. I too am looking at a trailer in the same weight range (Lance 1685) and have concerns. I had the opportunity of speaking with a Lance factory rep this weekend at the New England Trailer show in Springfield, MA. He spent nearly two hours with me going over every detail and specification of both the trailer and the Ascent. He assured me it was a safe and proper match provided the cargo weight was properly managed. He said he would never recommend any trailer to anyone unless he was absolutely certain. He gave no sales pitch and was there just to answer any technical questions that the dealer could not fully cover. I've added his recommendation to my ongoing list of the pros and cons of purchasing a trailer in the upper limit of the Ascent's capabilities and will consider it when I make my final decision.

I'm sure you have also carefully checked and considered the weights of the Caravel in relation to the Ascent's tow ratings. After 20 years in law enforcement, I'm certain you know all the rules and regulations.

Please keep us informed on how the Ascent performs with this trailer. It would be very valuable information for anyone else looking to buy a trailer in this weight range. I'll be buying a trailer later this year and I would be very interested to know how the Ascent handles trailers of this size and weight.
 

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Further to my post above, yes we are fully aware of Subaru's advice respecting a WDH. We also read at page 394 of our Subaru Ascent owners Manual model year 2020 the following statement:

"SUBARU warranties do not apply to vehicle damage or malfunction caused by trailer towing."

One would think at some point common sense should apply!

I did notice today my error in recording the email address for CANAM in London Ontario. There is a great deal of interesting information on trailer towing and professional advice and videos with respect to trailering with various kinds of cars and light trucks on their website. If you are thinking about towing a trailer with your Ascent it's worth a read at: www.canamrv.ca.

My apologies for incorrectly quoting a faulty email address!
 

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To further this discussion here are my Ascent and the (unloaded shipping to dealer) weights of the Airstream 22' Caravel including batteries and LPx2 25lb (as provided by Airstream).

My 2020 Ascent with full fuel and myself as passenger (180 lbs), nothing else of significance in the car as weighed a CAT Certified Automated Truck Scale:

Steer Axle: 2620 lbs actual

Rear Axle: 2240 lbs actual

Gross weight: 4860 lbs actual

According to the Door Post weights provided by Subaru, my Ascent has a maximum gross weight of 6000 lbs. Using the actual weights above, the Net carry capacity for my Ascent appears to be 1140 lbs. Notice the steer axle is 380 lbs heavier than the rear axle.

Airstream 22' Caravel empty weighed by Airstream for delivery to vendor. This is a single axle trailer.

Gross Weight Rating: 5000 lbs

Unit Base Weight: 4200 lbs

Net Carry Capacity: 800 lbs

I do not know the hitch weight of this trailer which will be determined on arrival at my dealer. It is said to be (by Airstream) on the order of 525 lbs. Eventually of course, the hitch weight will be important as the trailer is loaded with my wife's shoes etc. Needless to day, clothing, food and beverage will be of secondary importance!

Tell us what you think! We knew all of this before we bought the trailer!
 
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